boxerchip

Ive had the same old Sentry crappy safe for a long time now. As of right now I keep all my nice coins at the bank for fear of robbery, but I dont like that either because then I cant enjoy them.
My questions to you guys are:

Do you think its worth it to mess with a safe? I mean what is REALLY needed so someone cant steal stuff... my sentry safe is fairly big, and loaded up it would be hard to carry away, but two guys and a dolly could easily do it. So what size safe is really going to STOP someone? I dont think I have to worry about professional safe breakers... I dont have THAT much that a pro would target me.

What safe do you recommend and why, also what is the cost?

Any other advice or options you can offer.... I just much prefer my coins to be with me than at the bank.

firefightersk

I'm a newbie here as of today but I thought I'd let you know that I just ordered a Cannon Safe as I have a few guns as well as quite a few coins that I inherited from my dad. Specifically I purchased a Cannon Patriot P40. It comes with four shelves so I can store a lot of coins in addition to my guns. It weighs 650 lbs and can be bolted to the floor or a wall. It is 40" W x 59" H x 24" D. You can google Cannon Safes and look them over. Hope this is helpful. My safe will be bolted to a wall in my garage which is heated.

Just Carl

lots of posts about safes. Possilby a search on this forum would pop up with a lot of them. My 2 cents is as follows:
If people see a safe being delivered, stories will build up how you have so much money you need a safe. Eventually criminals too will hear this. Now if you think that safe makes it safe, a gun to your head will open it so fast you would really wonder why you ever got one.
Many say to bolt it to the floors and/or walls. One neighbor of mine HAD a safe bolted to the floor and walls. When his house was robbed they not only took that safe, but they also tool the alarm system. They had one of those where they call and ask if everything is OK. The burglers told them everything is OK.
So now you have a safe. Hopefully you have a great place for one. A place where it will not be seen. If seen by friends, neighbors, relatives, they too will start saying how you have millions in there.
If you place all your coins in there, don't forget you now have closed in the humidity when you slam the door. So now get those gel packs for that safe.
And in case of a fire the average good safe will not let things get burned. Someone I know told me it did protect everything from a fire. UNFORTUNATELY all the heat melted all the plastic all over everything.
Good luck with your safe.
I'll stick to a safe deposit box in the bank and a little fake wall in my house.

green18

The safest thing to do is to not let anyone know you're a collector....and Carl's statement makes a lot o' sense.

__________________
They also serve who only stand and wait....John Milton

boxerchip

I do my best to do that! although I should do better you all are right.

Where is the best place to get gel packs? I dont think ive got a humidity problem in my safe but I guess Ill have to get a meter and find out.

mark_h

Some safes are delivered in plane cardboard box. I would check with the safe company. Second most alarm companies have a password when they call and they are wireless now. This is setup with the monitoring company - I am sure some still have older systems. Last - keep them insured. You can check out ANA. Safe deposit boxes have their own risks also. There is no 100% guarantee.

__________________
the other mark
Best Baan Community
Empty airtite seeks unwanted coins. All sizes welcome.

boxerchip

Just gotta make it say... 20 more years till I retire and then I can sit at home all day and guard them with my riffle!

mark_h

One can only hope.

__________________
the other mark
Best Baan Community
Empty airtite seeks unwanted coins. All sizes welcome.

green18

Just be carefull where you're pointin' that gun at.......

__________________
They also serve who only stand and wait....John Milton

Jesh

http://www.brownsafe.com/features/Ge...elry_Safe.html

I own a 2418 UltraGem. It's 1600 lbs, fireproof, can be bolted, etc...

Great safe, comes with a lot of options.

The coins are stored in the bank however. The safe is mostly for documents.

Jesh

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?ur...=desiccant+gel

ldhair

Some feel it's not good to store coins and guns together because of the oils and solvents on the guns. Just a thought.

__________________
Larry

Cloudsweeper99

Safe deposit boxes are best by test. For coins kept at home, a well hidden coin is safer than a well protected one. I'd go with smaller safes, split the collection among two or three, and keep a number of low value coins in a simple locking storage box that is easy to find, and hope any thieves will be satisfied with that.

ldhair

I saved this post way back because it had some great information.


Safe Ratings

Burglary Ratings

* B1 — Theft resistant (minimum security)
* B2 — Underwriters’ Laboratories Residential Security Container label
* B3 — Non-rated anti-theft (incorporates features of high security safes
without a UL rating)
* B4 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-15 label
* B5 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30 label
* B6 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30X6 or TRTL-30 label

Fire Ratings

* FR — Fire resistant unrated insulated safe
* 1/2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 30 minutes with outside temperature of 1550 degrees.
* 1 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with outside temperature of 1700 degrees.
* 1 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with an outside temperature of 1700 degrees, plus survived drop test from 30 feet.
* 2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with an outside temperature of 1850 degrees.
* 2 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with outside temperature of 1850 degrees, plus survived drop test onto rubble from 30 feet

UL Underwriters' Laboratories (UL) - UL is a non-profit, non-bias agency that tests and rates the safety and performance of consumer products. Safes that have earned specific UL ratings will carry a UL label which designates the product's security and fire-protection ratings.

* Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.
* Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.
* Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.
* TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.
* TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.
* TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.
* TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

Fire Ratings

* Impact test - The UL impact test calls for the safe to be heated to 1550 degrees for 30 minutes (1638 degrees for a 2-hour fire rated safe) then dropped onto concrete rubble from a height of 30 feet. The safe is then turned upside down and reheated for another 30 minutes (45 minutes for a 2-hour fire rated safe). During this process, it must maintain its integrity and protect all contents in order to pass the UL impact test.
* Explosion hazard test - All UL fire-rated safes must undergo this test, during which the unit is inserted into a pre-heated 2000 degree oven. If the safe is not constructed properly, the rapid heating will likely cause an explosion.
* FR - Fire resistant, unrated insulated safe - This product is awaiting UL approval.
* Class 350 1/2-hour fire rating - During this test, the safe is heated for one-half hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees. Because paper will begin to char at approximately 400 degrees, the unit being tested must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees during heat-up and cool-down testing in order to earn its rating.
* Class 350 1-hour fire rating - To earn this rating, the safe is heated for one hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees, then put through the cool-down test. During this time the safe must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees.
* Cool-down test - This procedure is a key part of UL's fire testing procedures. After a one- or two-hour fire rating test, the safe is left in the oven for cool-down time with the heat turned off. Because of the intensive heat of one- and two-hour tests, the temperature inside the safe will continue to rise for up to one hour after the oven is turned off. To pass UL testing, the safe's interior temperature may not exceed 350 degrees at any time during heat-up or cool-down procedures.
* Class 350 1-hour fire & impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 1-hour fire testing (see above).
* Class 350 2-hour fire rating - The safe is heated for two hours to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees and must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees to earn this rating. Class 350 2-hour rating and impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 2-hour fire testing (see above).



1. Test attack against the door and front face:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Deposit Safe
3. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30

2. Test attack against the door and body:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15X6
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30X6
3. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-15X6
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30X6
5. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-60X6
6. Torch-, Explosive-, and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TXTL-60X6


There was an news article recently in CoinWorld about a burglary and how a collector/dealer’s safe was “smashed”. The manufacturer of the safe was listed and I was not at all surprised that the thieves demolished the safe. The manufacturer given is a major supplier of gun safes, not security safes.

Gun safes are usually made with a body of SHEET metal (steel), 12 gauge, 14 gauge, etc. and a steel plate (usually 1/4 in or less) for the door. Security safes employ steel PLATE, ¼”, ½”, 1” or greater and often have additional composite material to provide defense against various attacks (drill, torch, peel, etc). Security safes are rated on a letter scale, B, C, D, ... with B being a general catch all for 1/4” body and 1/2” steel door. There is also an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating (UL) such ad TL-15, TL30, and so on. The “15”, “30” , etc. on are measures of a the MINIMUM time it takes a professional to break in, the UL personnel that conduct the tests are pros.

Gun safes usually look pretty and have lots of thick locking bolts that give a false sense of security. Steel sheet metal is easy to break into, the local kid with an axe, crowbar and other tools can get in in no time. That thick fire resistant material between the sheet metal is just that, thick material to provide fire protection, NOT buglary protection.

One half inch or more of hardened steel with a drill resistance hardplate protecting the lock, glass or other relocking devices, drill resistant pellets and fibers between the lawyers of PLATE, and so on will discourage all but the most professional burglars. Time is the key to a good safe, not lots of locking bars.

The best jewelry safes may have a industrial diamond impregnated hardplate, slabs of copper to thwart torch attacks, multiple randomly placed relockers, and even layers (safe within a safe).

I would never store coins in a gunsafe and never buy one of those nice looking safes for sale at coin shows, A fairly “safe” safe is going to cost about $1000 for a good TL-15 safe (500 lbs or more).

Safest place for coins – a safe deposit box in one of those 50 year old bank vault safes that were build to withstand a nuclear attack.


-------------------------
Dave (PA)

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Larry

Penny Fanatic

It would be nice to have a nuclear attack proof safe at home!