Barber Quarter 1913-S (RARE KEYDATE)

kineticlpg · 09-05-2009, 11:49 PM

Hello i inhired my Grandfather coins collection and i found some scarce coins,
in special i have find this BARBER QUARTER 1913-S (Rare KeyDate).

I Attach the PCGS Chart. PLEASE HELP ME TO GRADE IT !.
Thanks in advance i will be pending from any responses.

illini420 · 09-06-2009, 12:01 AM

As you know, the 1913-S is a key date of the Barber Quarter series and is the lowest mintage quarter of the series w/ on 40,000 originally minted.

Given the value of this coin, there are tons of counterfeit examples out there. Based on the photos, I would guess this may be a counterfeit... DISCLAIMER, I'm an amateur collector of this series, so don't freak out until you hear the opinions of the experts

The denticles (little bumps all along the rim) just don't see to be right, especially on the lower part of the obverse and reverse. Also the extra star shape in the obverse field near the 11th star seems weird, as does the extra leaves at the top of Liberty's cap (clash from the reverse???). Never seen that on an original Barber Quarter.

edited to add, that if the coin is genuine, it looks to have XF details and would put it in the 40-45 range on the grading scale... though the PCGS price guide may not be accurate for an uncertifed coin, if the folks here think it's genuine, it's worth the $50-$75 to have this one certified and professionally graded.

Boss · 09-06-2009, 12:09 AM

I agree with illni420. Don't know this series well, but the coin looks suspcious. I couldn't articulate as well as above.

jessash1976 · 09-06-2009, 12:27 AM

IT has really got to be a fake! You can make out a sun in the star around 4 o'clock and a star to the to left. It may be a worn commemorative coin minted over with this image.

kineticlpg · 09-06-2009, 12:35 AM

Thanks to illini420, boss and jessash1976 for your answers.

Im still trying to figure it out !.

Im looking deeper, looks like have some error in the coin.

If some Barber Quarter Specialist comes into this treath will be very aprecciated too. i think we need a specialist Barber Eye.

Well i will continue to make comparisons and see what else i can find.

Thank you very much for your time. keep helping

illini420 · 09-06-2009, 12:40 AM

If you want to study some high resolution images of 1913-S Barber Quarter to compare, join Heritage Auctions website and search their auction history. It's free to join and you'll be able to see over 100 examples of this coin in high grade.

www.ha.com

Just need to sign up for their website to view the images and auction prices realized.

kineticlpg · 09-06-2009, 12:47 AM

Thanks illini420 !.

Im already at HA.com

The Obverse: Seems to have a strikeover i cannot figure from what coin can be.
The Reverse: Seems Fine acording too with HA.

Anyway still swiming in information.

illini420 · 09-06-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kineticlpg

Thanks illini420 !.

Im already at HA.com

The Obverse: Seems to have a strikeover i cannot figure from what coin can be.
The Reverse: Seems Fine acording too with HA.

Anyway still swiming in information.

Looks to me like a die clash, so it would be the reverse of the coin, but upside down. So the extra leaves in the obverse cap are probably the leaves held by the eagle in the lower reverse. Also the star @ 4 oclock on the obverse looks to be one of the stars on the upper reverse of the coin. This happens when the dies strike each other w/ no coin blank between them and part of the reverse design transfers to the obverse die and vice versa. Happens on genuine coins to, but never seen a clash this dramatic on a genuine example.

kineticlpg · 09-06-2009, 01:14 AM

illini, very good eye, and a bright idea.

Im Trying to make a Transfer in a Pc for Designers, my Wife is a E-Designer so is helping me a bit !. i will try to transfer it and seems if will fit. (Will be interesting to know it).

I will post the news.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Looks to me like a die clash, so it would be the reverse of the coin, but upside down. So the extra leaves in the obverse cap are probably the leaves held by the eagle in the lower reverse. Also the star @ 4 oclock on the obverse looks to be one of the stars on the upper reverse of the coin.
--------------------------------------------------------------

kineticlpg · 09-07-2009, 12:21 AM

The Repunched extra leaves and the Extra Star, fits perfectly.
I have been told that can be more than a simple die clash,
Might be a Counter Clash or maybe a flip over double strike.

Anyway is a good Keydate in the Quarter Barbers Catalog.

Treashunt · 09-08-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessash1976

IT has really got to be a fake! You can make out a sun in the star around 4 o'clock and a star to the to left. It may be a worn commemorative coin minted over with this image.

That is a post mint marking. It a hit. Not part of the design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kineticlpg

Thanks illini420 The Obverse: Seems to have a strikeover i cannot figure from what coin can be.

Nope, not a strike over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kineticlpg

The Repunched extra leaves and the Extra Star, fits perfectly.
I have been told that can be more than a simple die clash,
Might be a Counter Clash or maybe a flip over double strike..

Again, nope, not a strike over.

It could be good, the only problem is that it is a high grade.

more to follow.

Treashunt · 09-08-2009, 06:38 AM

okay:
Even tho the mintmark appears to be in the correct position, I beleive that it is not genuine.

If you look at the left leg of the eagle (facing left) you will see the design does not match that of a genuine Barber quarter. It has different feather positions, and design.
The leaves on the olive branch look too scrawny, not full enough.

The same with the right leg (again, right facing). The wing is 'indented' to allow room for the arrows. This is not correct position for the arrows, or wing.

I still would submit it, but I believe not genuine.

I would love to be wrong here, and would love to have it, either as a genuine piece, or as a copy, but... no one will buy it with out it being certified first.

Good luck, I hope that it works out for you.

Mark Feld · 09-09-2009, 11:50 AM

Perhaps the images are just throwing me off, but it doesn't look genuine to me. Liberty's head band looks wrong and the denticles look off, among other indicators.