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I admit I am somewhat new to coin collecting, but I find it hard to believe that certain TPG's cannot find a single coin that came straight from the mint in a particular series that can be graded MS70. What am I missing?
Nothing - then again on very few modern coins can I tell the difference between a 69 and a 70. So I do not even worry about. I have had several dealers with a lot more experience than me tell me the same thing.
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I think the fact that MS70 is referred to as a perfect coin and the value associated with a perfect coin has quite a bit to do with it. If there were more MS70 grades being awared it would greatly affect the market as a whole. The lessor graded coins in the MS63-65 range which are very good coins would be worth far less as the demand would be much less if the MS70 was more attainable. Just my opinion though.
I think you are being naive. Not only to the (suboptimal) quality of the coins coming out of today's mint, but also as to how collectors assign values to coins (which is less based on absolute grades, and more on relative grades). Respectfully...Mike
It's very hard for a bussines strike coin to go from the press, into a bin with thousands of other coins piling on top of it, then thrown in bags, then shipped to where the coins are rolled, then poured into a machine to actually get rolled, and survive without getting a single tiny mark on it. Not to mention a coin with a perfect strike on top of all that.
It's hard enough to get a coin from a proof set, let alone bussines strikes.
The chances are much better if a coin comes from a mint set, but odds are still long for a perfect coin. It does happen, and they are graded, just not in great quantities.
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I admit I am somewhat new to coin collecting, but I find it hard to believe that certain TPG's cannot find a single coin that came straight from the mint in a particular series that can be graded MS70. What am I missing?
Well, first a technical point. It is not that the TPG's can't find a MS-70 coin..... They don't look for them. They only grade what is sent in.
Here's an interesting experiment. Buy 3-4 mint sets for a particular year. When you get them, pull out the loupe and inspect them.
You will be AMAZED at the range of quality of coins in the sets.
You might have a Top-Notch 1974-D nickel and the 1974-D Half looks like a train ran over it or it is such a weak strike that the tail feathers are not there.
MS-70 is the holy grail. If you submit and you get it, you have quite literally won the lottery.
I have mint sets from the '70's where the nickel doesn't even show ONE step - it's all mush.
Of course, in recent years the mint has been doling out higher quality products and in those years, a MS-70 grade is not unusual.
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I forgot that sgs only has two stamps. Ms and proof 70.
Ouch! ROTFLOL!
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For PCGS it does not necessaryly mean perfect, it means as struck (there may be minor imperfections from the striking process). Any nick or ding that is post strike drops the grade.
I'm at the other extreme. Once you know how coins are made you become surprised that ANY coins (business strike) could get graded 70. Or even 69.
In a typical Schuler press the planchet is placed into the coining chamber, the dies come together, the die pushes the coin out of the collar, the feed fingers push the struck coin out of the way, the die retracts and the next planchet is placed in the coining chamber. All of this repeats thirteen times PER SECOND. So those feed finger can't be too gentle pushing that coin out of the way. The coins come out of the press at 750 coins per minute. That is faster than bullets come out of most machine guns. The coins bounce against the guides, slide down a chute and drop down onto previously struck coins. Then more coins fall out of the press and land on THEM. Eventually the coins in this holding hopper are DUMPED into a bigger hopper and once again more coins are dumped on them.
Then they go to the riddler. Here the coins spend time all bouncing around together while two layers of steel plate with holes in them sort out the over and undersized pieces. The the coins are run through a high speed counter and dumped into a ballistic bag. These bags are then taken the armor car facilities where the coins are then dumped inthe the counting/rolling machines. Is it any wonder the Unc bank rolls and Mint rolls contain coins that are covered with bag marks. That any coin can go through all that and come out with no marks or almost no marks is a miracle.
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I'm at the other extreme. Once you know how coins are made you become surprised that ANY coins (business strike) could get graded 70. Or even 69.
In a typical Schuler press the planchet is placed into the coining chamber, the dies come together, the die pushes the coin out of the collar, the feed fingers push the struck coin out of the way, the die retracts and the next planchet is placed in the coining chamber. All of this repeats thirteen times PER SECOND. So those feed finger can't be too gentle pushing that coin out of the way. The coins come out of the press at 750 coins per minute. That is faster than bullets come out of most machine guns. The coins bounce against the guides, slide down a chute and drop down onto previously struck coins. Then more coins fall out of the press and land on THEM. Eventually the coins in this holding hopper are DUMPED into a bigger hopper and once again more coins are dumped on them.
Then they go to the riddler. Here the coins spend time all bouncing around together while two layers of steel plate with holes in them sort out the over and undersized pieces. The the coins are run through a high speed counter and dumped into a ballistic bag. These bags are then taken the armor car facilities where the coins are then dumped inthe the counting/rolling machines. Is it any wonder the Unc bank rolls and Mint rolls contain coins that are covered with bag marks. That any coin can go through all that and come out with no marks or almost no marks is a miracle.
This is one of the most well thought out responses to the MS70 question I have ever seen. Thanks for thinking things through.
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