1870 Barber Half Dime Prototype

Nickeldude · 07-04-2009, 02:52 PM

Has any body ever heard of an 1870 Barber Half Dime Prototype? My cousin has one graded by PCGS and it's a PF-66. If anyone has any information on this coin and any prices of this would be very helpful.

Thanks

CamaroDMD · 07-04-2009, 03:17 PM

Yes, there are a number of 1870 Pattern's that contain a Liberty design by Barber. Does the slab have a Judd number on it? Typically, they will print the J-### on the label of the slab to help the coin be identified. Assuming it's silver it will be either a J-815 or a J-816. They also made copper and aluminum patterns which are J-817 through J-820 depending on the coin.

If you could let us know which example of the pattern it is we might be able to provide you with more help.

900fine · 07-04-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickeldude

Has any body ever heard of an 1870 Barber Half Dime Prototype?

You betcha !

What does it say on the reverse - "Standard Silver 5 Cents" or "Half Dime" ?

What's on the obverse - a Seated Liberty ?

mmarotta · 07-04-2009, 04:22 PM

I have Pollock and both an old and a new Judd. According to the new Judd
(10th), Proof-66 is not priced, so we can assume that any assigned estimate will be greater than the astounding prices for the Proof-65.

Also, for all readers, the "Barber" obverse is not the Liberty Head that we know from the Barber series of 1892-1913, but a Seated Liberty designed by William Barber. This Seated Liberty is profiled Left, whereas the Longacre Seated is actually seated Rightward, but with her head turned Left.

They look like this below from the Pattern collectors at www.uspatterns.com:
or like this form the same site:
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/uspatterns_2060_16708649

CamaroDMD · 07-04-2009, 04:37 PM

The reverse is also important as was said earlier. Does it say "Half Dime" or "Standard Silver 5 Cents." Also, what metal is it made out of...silver, copper, or aluminum? There is also different rims.

Mark Feld · 07-04-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickeldude

Has any body ever heard of an 1870 Barber Half Dime Prototype? My cousin has one graded by PCGS and it's a PF-66. If anyone has any information on this coin and any prices of this would be very helpful.

Thanks

Presumably, he is talking about a pattern coin, the design of which was never adopted for our coinage. Although it would have been designed by Barber, it will look nothing like a "Barber" dime. Ask him what the "J" (Judd) number is, and once I have it, I can hopefully show you a picture of what it looks like. The Judd number should be between 809 and 824 and the coin could be copper, alumiunum or silver.

Here is an image of one of them:

Nickeldude · 07-04-2009, 05:29 PM

The Judd number is J815 but I don't have the coin with me so I can't say what is on the reverse.

Mark Feld · 07-04-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickeldude

The Judd number is J815 but I don't have the coin with me so I can't say what is on the reverse.

Here's a J-815 and the description from the sale it appeared in:

"1870 H10C Half Dime, Judd-815, Pollock-904, Low R.7, PR64 NGC.</I> William Barber's Seated Liberty design. She faces left, with a shield in her right hand and free-standing Liberty pole behind. The reverse is the same design used to coin contemporary regular-issue half dimes. Struck in silver with a reeded edge. About a dozen are known. This pleasing champagne-toned proof has splashes of deep iridescence.
From The Frank M. Stirling Collection.</B> (#61059) View Entire Collection."

Nickeldude · 07-04-2009, 06:21 PM

Ok thanks. Do you know what the value of this coin is and how rare they are?

Mark Feld · 07-04-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickeldude

Ok thanks. Do you know what the value of this coin is and how rare they are?

For the estimated rarity, see the description in my previous post.

I'm guessing it's about a $6000-$7000 coin, but they appear infrequently and values are not easy to pinpoint.

mmarotta · 07-04-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickeldude

Ok thanks. Do you know what the value of this coin is and how rare they are?

In post #8, Mark Feld cited an auction catalog that gave the entry, "Low R. 7". That refers to Lyman Low's Rarity Scale from 1899 developed for Hard Times Tokens" from 1 (most common) to 9 (unique, or nearly so). R.7 means "Estimated 4 to 12 Specimens Survive."

Bowers' Judd 10th gives the population as 10, with 9 appearances at auction, the most recent May 2008 in which a NGC PF-66PQ was sold for $4830.

Nickeldude · 07-04-2009, 09:20 PM

Ok Thanks to everyone for all there help.

CamaroDMD · 07-04-2009, 11:17 PM

One more fact that might interest you about this coin...the difference between the J-815 and the J-816 is the edge. This coin being an 815 has a reeded edge while the 816 has a plain edge. Both are made of silver however and both are a low R7 rarity.

physics-fan3.14 · 07-05-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmarotta

In post #8, Mark Feld cited an auction catalog that gave the entry, "Low R. 7". That refers to Lyman Low's Rarity Scale from 1899 developed for Hard Times Tokens" from 1 (most common) to 9 (unique, or nearly so). R.7 means "Estimated 4 to 12 Specimens Survive."

Bowers' Judd 10th gives the population as 10, with 9 appearances at auction, the most recent May 2008 in which a NGC PF-66PQ was sold for $4830.

Did you mean to say the scale goes from 1 to 8, with 8 being unique or nearly so? There is no R9 that I'm familiar with.

Mark Feld · 07-05-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by physics-fan3.14

Did you mean to say the scale goes from 1 to 8, with 8 being unique or nearly so? There is no R9 that I'm familiar with.

I'm only familiar with the 8 point rarity scale, like you are. However, apparently there is a different scale that goes up to R-9, at least with respect to hard times tokens. The sixth item down on this page is R-9: http://www.hardtimestokens.com/DanielWebster.html

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