HandsomeToad

Howdy peeps,

In the CFE Group, we've "coined" a term for the idiots that bid on obvious counterfeits - Bidiot - and yesterday there was an auction that ended and proves the term is right on the money:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180339837386

It's an 1843 Seated Liberty Dollar with Motto (IGWT), which the SLD's didn't have mottos on them until 1866! It doesn't take much investigation to figure out it's a counterfeit, yet, so many bid on it. Look at the bidding history to see just how many Bidiots were involved and the ending price is further proof that many peeps are buying coins on Ebay that haven't a clue about coins (Bidiots).

Probably the most common thing said on CoinTalk is buy the book first, then the coin, and that is so true but that saying doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy books, there are so many wonderful websites available for free that can be used for reference until you can more afford to actually buy the book. The old saying - "A fool and his money are soon parted." - comes into play so educate yourself before buying anything you aren't VERY knowledgeable about.

Ribbit

900fine

OK, now I'm REALLY confused.

First off, the lister can't spell "silver". Ouch.

But what really gets me... why would someone counterfeit a coin which never existed ? Isn't it challenging to counterfeit and make it look as real as possible ? ...such that only an expert could detect it ?

But these dopes created a counterfeit (or forgery) which is easily detected by a rank beginner !

What tha.... ???

Wha.... ???

Collect89

Hello Rabbit,

Perhaps when there are several people bidding it somehow gives Bidiots confidence in the coin's value and they loose sight of what they are bidding on.

Very best regards,
collect89

__________________
"All of us are smarter than any one of us"

900fine

Wait 'till you see me in action at the EAC Convention.

"A fool and his money are soon partying."

HandsomeToad

That's a good point!

I remember when I first got going on Ebay, I'd keep the entire list of coins up, with the "Ending Soonest" format and I'd browse them, refreshing frequently, until I ran across what I thought was a good deal and then I'd snipe it. I learned pretty fast that was not the way to do it! You have to study the coin closely first, which takes time and once you're convinced it's authentic and you have a ballpark grade determined, then you can bid on it, not a spur of the moment bidding frenzy which so many peeps do.

CoinTalk helped me so much when I got back into buying/collecting coins and I just wish others would join before buying, so as to save them the grief I went through, as so many others have gone through. So the spur of the moment bidders could have also gotten involved with that one but as I said earlier, that is not the way to do it on Ebay and anyone that bids on a coin because others bid on it, without examining it themself first, well . . . .

Ribbit

HOBBY61

Thanks handsome toad,
im no expert, yes even i could see this.
I wrote ebay my feelings about this item, i dont know if it will do any good, and thanks to others at coin talk for doing the same.

I thought i would throw you a CLinker (fly) but i think i nom. For thread of the week, o well thanks again.

HandsomeToad

Thanks for the Nom!

Ribbit

HOBBY61

Typo-clinker/tinker, something like that.

coleguy

I just wonder who exactly these people bidding on and buying these fake coins are. I mean, I know quite a few collectors and as far as I know they don't do foolish things like that. Does anyone here actually know any of these buyers personally? The reason I say this is because I believe them not to be collectors at all, but rather people looking to invest and turn a fast fat profit, but who are too lazy to do any research before blowing their money. Thats the only plausible scenario in my mind. Most novice collectors aren't going to jump right in and blow 500-600 dollars on a single coin. It's investors like that that really sheds light on why Wall Street is crumbling. Would anyone here buy a thousand shares of stock without forst looking into and doing nominal research into where you're placing your money? I know nobody here would, because we happen to be smarter than that.
Guy~

ice

When you say would anyone really buy a 1000 shares of a stock without doing the research where you are placing your money the anwser is yes. Lots of people gave Madoff money so yes people will fork over millions of dollars without research. Ice

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HandsomeToad

I agree that it's MOSTLY peeps that aren't collectors but rather they are looking for a cheap investment potential and probably invested a whooping 15 bucks on a Red Book.

Ribbit

HandsomeToad

Most of those investors came to Bernie by way of mouth. It would be like me telling you you can get good deals from Jack and you trust my opinion so you don't question the authenticity of his coins.

Ribbit

Hobo

The Chinese counterfeiters make dies from a number of coins, in this case Seated Dollars. When they make their counterfeit coins they grab an obverse die and a reverse die. These dies may do not necessarily go together. All the counterfeiters make sure of is they have one obverse die and one reverse die.

The counterfeiters most likely do not speak or read English and most likely do not own a Red Book. They probably have little desire to create a coin that accurately duplicates a genuine example. They probably do not know or care that are creating a coin that never existed by pairing a late reverse die with an early obverse die.

I own a fantasy Chinese counterfeit coin - an 1848-S Seated Dollar. Anyone with a Red Book should know (or be able to find out) that the San Francisco Mint did not exist before the Gold Rush (which started in 1849).

Knowledge is power. Use it.

__________________
No state shall emit bills of credit, make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts, coin money . . . - US Constitution, Article 1, Section 10

ANA LM-3799; OHNS LM-59; SUSCC R-4005. All coins stored in bank safe deposit box.

Conder101

And obviously the people they are selling them to don't know that obv and rev don't go together either , so it doesn't really matter.

Toad any idea when the term was "coined" I ask because I know it dates back at least three years. Probably longer.

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reported as of 12/29/06
132 companies 332 production varieties

HandsomeToad

I know of the official term being coined back in late January early February, with full definition given, but how far back it goes, I haven't a clue.

Ribbit