Thread: 1776 Colonial coin any help appreciated

Hello,
I have this coin that is dated 1776 and reads AMERICAN LIBERTY WM. I AM ALMOST POSSOTIVE IT IS A FAKE. I was jsut wondering if anyone knew the weight and size this should be. I have researched it and found that there are alot of repo some from the 1860s and some modern ones but I can not find the weight or size it should be. Any help is appreciated.

I'm not an expert on colonials but I would have to say the 'R' in the first pic looks very modern and very fresh and that would stand for replica.

I didn't see anything in the Red Book that this would be trying to duplicate. Maybe a token of some kind, but that's just a guess. Somebody else will probably come along and give you more info than me.

this is now the wrong section kiddo

Nice piece BTW - Looks Jewish.

Originally Posted by fastfun1111

Hello,
I have this coin that is dated 1776 and reads AMERICAN LIBERTY WM. I AM ALMOST POSSOTIVE IT IS A FAKE. I was jsut wondering if anyone knew the weight and size this should be. I have researched it and found that there are alot of repo some from the 1860s and some modern ones but I can not find the weight or size it should be. Any help is appreciated.

I would agree: fake. or a copy (to be polite).

Originally Posted by mrbrklyn

Nice piece BTW - Looks Jewish.

(sighs audibly)... only Ruben....

http://www.menorahcoinproject.org/h496.htm

This is a New Hampshire Copper which was presumably minted by William Moulton.
It is generally thought Moulton prepared some cast patterns but the coin never went into production.
I compared this to a Rosa copy from the 1960's and this is not one of his copies.
His coin impressions came from the coin in the British Museum. Whitman Encyclopedia has the coin at 18mm.

Ruben,
Interesting that you chose the Hendin 496 (Herod) coin to compare it to. That one clearly is a palm whereas fastfun's coin has a menorah (a real Jewish symbol). I would have compare it to the Antigonus coin with the menorah, Hendin 485: http://www.menorahcoinproject.org/h_485.htm

I love the stories behind those Antigonus coins too. He was so on the edge at the time, doing things that were probably as likely to be repulsive to his constituents as it was to be a symbol that they would appreciate. He was trying to win the hearts and minds of his fellow Jews by saying that he was Jewish, unlike his competitor, Herod. But by depicting a symbol from the Temple, he was violating a law that is kept to this very day.

-Daniel

This one is apx 22.5 mm and 4.35 grams so it is a little bigger than the 18 mm one. Thanks for all the help.
Fastfun

Originally Posted by danielf

Ruben,
Interesting that you chose the Hendin 496 (Herod) coin to compare it to. That one clearly is a palm whereas fastfun's coin has a menorah (a real Jewish symbol). I would have compare it to the Antigonus coin with the menorah, Hendin 485: http://www.menorahcoinproject.org/h_485.htm

I love the stories behind those Antigonus coins too. He was so on the edge at the time, doing things that were probably as likely to be repulsive to his constituents as it was to be a symbol that they would appreciate. He was trying to win the hearts and minds of his fellow Jews by saying that he was Jewish, unlike his competitor, Herod. But by depicting a symbol from the Temple, he was violating a law that is kept to this very day.

-Daniel

First, I picked the coin I thought looks closest and I had just gotten done looking at some of those photos including the one I linked it, but what really caused the original statement was that there is a tradition from the RamBam that the Menora actually had straight arms that came out of the center at an angle. But if that is a Menora, it has 8 arms not six.

As for the Menora being represented in picturegraph, that is not so easy because historically there is a tendency to avoid the image when carved (sometimes they drew a line over the top of it) BUT, it was still used often as a Jewish and Religious symbol on walls, art, mossiacs, and all kinds of significant things.

Ruben

This is not my information. I am quoting information I have found. You might have been the one who asked the question.

"In 1776 William Moulton was commissioned by the New Hampshire State House of Representatives to make copper patterns for a proposed state coinage. The pattern most known shows a Pine Tree on the obverse and a harp on the reverse (Garret sale in 1980: $13,000.)

Other patterns include a hand engraved piece and a piece with the large initials WM on the reverse. These pieces may not be the work of Moulton. Many copies and replicas exist of these coins. Authenticated is mandatory. " - The Coin Doc

If you can authenticate it, it sounds like you might have a mini gold mine.

Thanks again for the info. I think I will take it to the next coin show I go to and show it to a few of the sellers there and see wht they think.

I read the reason they found out a lot of them were fakes out there is because they found someones hand carved dies produced in the 1990's.