Longacre doubling & hub doubling

rzage · 01-22-2009, 06:11 PM

Could someone please explain the differences in types of doubling , I hear machine doubling is from loose dyes or machine parts , but what is Lonacre doubling or hub doubling , Thanks in advance .

rzage

borgovan · 01-22-2009, 08:33 PM

Longacre doubling is, as its name suggests, doubling that is seen on coins designed by Longacre. Since it is so common, it doesn't really add anything to a coin's value.

borgovan · 01-22-2009, 08:35 PM

There are many different kinds of hub doubling.

If you want to know more, you may want to borrow, or buy, a copy of Cherrypicker's. I know that there is an excellent discussion in the Fourth Edition, Volume One. I do not know if this same discussion is present in other Cherrypicker's editions or volumes.

desertgem · 01-22-2009, 08:38 PM

here is a good url for illustration and explanation of Longacre Doubling.

http://www.coinresource.com/articles/mystery_coin.htm

Jim

borgovan · 01-22-2009, 08:38 PM

Or, for the el-cheapo version, check out CONECA's website. The link goes right to the glossary, but they have useful information on doubling throughout the website.

http://conecaonline.org/content/glossary.html

Arizona Jack · 01-22-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgem

here is a good url for illustration and explanation of Longacre Doubling.

http://www.coinresource.com/articles/mystery_coin.htm

Jim

Excellent links Jim and Borgavan

borgovan · 01-22-2009, 11:22 PM

Thanks! Glad to be of help.

rzage · 01-23-2009, 05:32 PM

Thanks guys , good links .
rzage

Conder101 · 01-24-2009, 04:36 AM

Quote:

http://www.coinresource.com/articles/mystery_coin.htm

Nice article, good pictures, I don't agree with some of his conclusions and I think some of his information is in error. His description of how the dies were made is accurate for up to the late 1830's, maybe in a few cases early 1840's (By the late 1830's positional variation of the lettering ends, but the use of working hubs and working dies did not come into use until the the late 1860's. Before that time every die was a "master die" and if the lettering had been punched by hand variation would still have been the order of the day.) No way was it done that way to 1886 (with the possible exception of some pattern dies.)

Longacre doubling does NOT stop appearing in 1886, I have seen examples of it in Indian head cents as late as 1907. It does become less common though.

The doubling he shows on the dates is not true Longacre doubling but it is created by roughly the same effect.

And I have never noticed Longacre doubling to be rounded. That which I have seen is typically flat.

Leadfoot · 01-24-2009, 01:25 PM

Here are a few examples of longacre doubling. I see them most often from the coins of the 1850's and 1860's, but also in some issues until the 1880's like this gold dollar.

You can just barely see it on this IHC:

jazzcoins · 01-24-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

Nice article, good pictures, I don't agree with some of his conclusions and I think some of his information is in error. His description of how the dies were made is accurate for up to the late 1830's, maybe in a few cases early 1840's (By the late 1830's positional variation of the lettering ends, but the use of working hubs and working dies did not come into use until the the late 1860's. Before that time every die was a "master die" and if the lettering had been punched by hand variation would still have been the order of the day.) No way was it done that way to 1886 (with the possible exception of some pattern dies.)
the same effect.

And I have never noticed Longacre doubling to be rounded. That which I have seen is typically flat.

,
The differance between hub doublinng ,and longacre doubling ,machine doubling ,and die deterioration doubling to me

When i see hub doubling it has raised images ,split serifs in the letters ,and the images are rounded which are distinct and clear

When i see longacre doubling usually it is doubled on both sides of the coin whuch i stated in a previous thread with a mushy scattered somewhat raised apearance ,but not particularly rounded the two different doubling is really easy to detect on the older coins if you use good judement.

When I see machine doubling I look for the shelf like appearance flat not rounded or raised and usually has splits in the letters from the loose dies striking down on the coin with force damaging the metal.

When i see die dterioration doubling I look for mushy letters and usually doubling on both sides of the coin and the images are raised , but are not clear and distinct images .I also look at the fields of the coin to see a orange peel effect a clear indication of DDD. These are my ways to detect different forms of doubling and this method has worked for me 99 percent of the time.

Jazzcoins Joe

rzage · 01-24-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzcoins

,
The differance between hub doublinng ,and longacre doubling ,machine doubling ,and die deterioration doubling to me

When i see hub doubling it has raised images ,split serifs in the letters ,and the images are rounded which are distinct and clear

When i see longacre doubling usually it is doubled on both sides of the coin whuch i stated in a previous thread with a mushy scattered somewhat raised apearance ,but not particularly rounded the two different doubling is really easy to detect on the older coins if you use good judement.

When I see machine doubling I look for the shelf like appearance flat not rounded or raised and usually has splits in the letters from the loose dies striking down on the coin with force damaging the metal.

When i see die dterioration doubling I look for mushy letters and usually doubling on both sides of the coin and the images are raised , but are not clear and distinct images .I also look at the fields of the coin to see a orange peel effect a clear indication of DDD. These are my ways to detect different forms of doubling and this method has worked for me 99 percent of the time.

Jazzcoins Joe

Thanks Jazzcoins , this helps make it clearer .
rzage

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