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01-08-2009, 04:29 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Olympic Mountains Washington
Posts: 17
My Mood: | Inherited want to liquidate
My Dad left me a substantial U.S. numismatic coin collection (mostly morgan and piece silver dollars) as well as Mexican olympic 25 peso a mexican silver. I want to keep type sets of the U.S. coins and liquidate the 1968 Mexican olympic 25 peso silver (Type 1, 2, and 3), the proceeds, of which, will go to a family home for the benefit of our children and grandchildren (to honor my Dad's legacy...he was 98 and had been collecting for thirty or more years). I will continue to collect and expand on the U.S. Coin collection.
My questions are these:
1. When does this hobby become a business with accounting appropriate to that endeavor (i.e. capital gains, expenses, income, profit...etc.)?
2. What are the best media (2x2s, airtites, flips, etc.) to place (safely secure) these coins for sale and shipment?
3. Should I consider coinbug or others (don't think i have the value or quantity for Heritage) over ebay...have read about the hassle of ebay.
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01-08-2009, 04:45 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: United States of America
Posts: 3,378
My Mood: |
Well, Logger.... first, welcome to Coin Talk. I am sorry to hear about your father, but I am sure he would be excited in the fact that you are trying to continue his coin collecting legacy. I can only hope that my kids will one day do the same.... but first I must have some kids!
In reference to your coin holdings that you are looking to sell, with 10 posts (which you already have) you can start posting in the open section and see if any of the memebers of CT may be interested in buying some of your stuff. I know that I would be interested in posibly purchasing some of your items, given if the price is right. GOod luck.
__________________ "These are the times that try men's' souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." Thomas Paine, Intro to the The Crisis, December 19, 1776 |
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01-08-2009, 04:48 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | CEO of Brooklyn
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 10,092
My Mood: |
Welcome to Coin Talk and I'm also sorry to hear about your father's passing. The question you ask I believe depends on the state, but in your case i think the issue is actually an inheritance tax and capital gains.
Ruben
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01-08-2009, 04:49 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | CEO of Brooklyn
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 10,092
My Mood: |
obviously you need to get a hold of an accountant....
Ruben
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01-08-2009, 04:54 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Urinist
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas
Posts: 6,572
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbrklyn obviously you need to get a hold of an accountant.... | I don't know what's worse, Brooky stuttering or me trying to figure out which one to use to quote?
Not everything inherited is claimed.
Ribbit |
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01-08-2009, 05:29 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,503
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeToad
Not everything inherited is claimed.
Ribbit  | Selling coins is - every single time.
Logger - if you sell the coins, there will be tax consequences. Do as Ruben suggested, talk to your accountant.
__________________
knowledge ..... share it
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01-08-2009, 06:22 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Olympic Mountains Washington
Posts: 17
My Mood: | Inherited
Thanks all...appreciate the feedback.
Guess i was asking pretty broad questions. Agree that i need to talk to accountant and weave in the inheritance taxes capital gains, etc.
Guess there is a mountain of information on the use of flips, 2x2's or airtites. Just have to read more the literature and make some decisions.
No comments on how to liquidate...again...just a matter of researching and getting my own feel for the right market for the right coin.
The coins i want to liquidate at the moment are the 1968 Mexican Olympic 25 peso's, type 1. Saw one on Coinbug for $C20. Didn't see any on ebay. For some reason i remember reading on this forum that coin sales are to be conducted elsewhere. Maybe i can start with what's this coin worth?. Will post there.
Thanks all...again...appreciate your help!
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01-08-2009, 06:28 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Senior Errer Collecktor
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,492
My Mood: |
Welcome Logger!
I see you are from Washington state. It does matter where your dad had his permanent address ( where he would have been liable for state income tax if applied) when he passed. If it was Washington state, which is one of 7 states with estate tax not linked to the federal estate tax then :
First you should value all assets transferred, including houses, cars, coins, etc. The executor of the will has to do this by appraisals or sales and submit the total value to the court. This will determine the estate tax responsibility. According to the tax rates on the internet if he died in 2008, and had 999,999 or less value, there should be no estate taxes. Neither state nor Federal. Over 1,000,000 it is 14% up for Washington state share. Federal limit for 2008 was 2,000,000. So you might owe Washington tax, and not Federal. If he died in 2009, State tax is the same but Fed is up to 3,500,000.
If it looks like you have to pay taxes ( due to court record of value), I recommend also to retain an estate lawyer and get an tax accountant to do your forms. The executor will have to do your dad's tax forms until the estate is settled. The one I did for the family lasted 3 years, and no estate taxes were needed.
Now as to Capital gains, the value of the coins you inherit will have an initial basis of the value determined as of your dad's death. You should ( or have the appraiser) if you need one, research what each coin was worth if sold that day. Then when you sell that coin, you are responsible for capital gain ( short or long term) based on any increase in value from that figure, not from what your dad paid for it. If he was alive and gave it to you, you would have to pay based on increased from when he obtained it, but the law assumes that estate taxes would accommodate that.
I am not a lawyer, but have been executor for several family members and started with a "Probate Law for Dummies" and ended up in the county Law library. If a Trust of any kind is involved, ignore above and get an Estate lawyer to make sure the Trust and Trustee is fair and accurate in actions. Sorry for your loss
Jim
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01-08-2009, 06:35 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Senior Errer Collecktor
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,492
My Mood: |
Logger,
I remembered ( a keyclick too late) you mentioned you want to liquidate. Sometimes it is necessary to do quickly if distribution has to occur. Might be best for you would be if you solicited several buy offers, and sold all at once to the best offer. That would make calculations easiest. Some of the coins may only be worth silver value and the value on your dad's day of death would be easy to determine.
Jim
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01-09-2009, 05:17 AM
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#10 (permalink)
| | King of Hearts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,559
| Quote:
Originally Posted by GDJMSP Selling coins is - every single time.
Logger - if you sell the coins, there will be tax consequences. Do as Ruben suggested, talk to your accountant. | so if you sold me a pocket piece and i paid you $10 i dont think its accounted
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01-09-2009, 09:23 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 112
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I'm not sure if you have to pay taxes on coins you sell. I know in PA you don't pay tax when you buy so I don't think you should pay taxes when you sell. Most likely it would be claimed under income tax.
I could be wrong though.
Also when you claim do you claim dollar for dollar? Or do you claim the value?
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01-09-2009, 03:43 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,503
| Quote:
Originally Posted by spock1k so if you sold me a pocket piece and i paid you $10 i dont think its accounted | Yes it is. If I am the seller I either have a loss or a gain - one or the other is always accounted for.
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knowledge ..... share it
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01-09-2009, 04:00 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Jester in hobby of kings
Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Iowa
Posts: 5,386
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by ppratt3 I'm not sure if you have to pay taxes on coins you sell. I know in PA you don't pay tax when you buy so I don't think you should pay taxes when you sell. Most likely it would be claimed under income tax. | That would be sales tax, not income tax. And I believe sales tax on coins varies from state to state.
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01-09-2009, 09:14 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 112
| Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergts2 That would be sales tax, not income tax. And I believe sales tax on coins varies from state to state. |
You are correct not sure what I was thinking (Brain fart).
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01-09-2009, 09:46 PM
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#15 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,472
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I'm not sure just how you collected those coins. If they went through an attorney, there is that record of you collecting those coins as an inheritance.
If you were just handed them by someone in the family or someone just opened a safe box, or you were named in a will to get a bunch of STUFF. If there is no accurate record of you receiving those coins, you couldn't be hit with any kind of inheritance tax. Not meaning to be giving you tax evasion advise over the internet, but just who knows what you got.
People take inheritance coins all the time and just go to a coin show and sell the entire mess. You should really contact an atorney and preferably the one that may have handled the estate. In every state there are different laws as to inheritance, sales taxes, capital gains of long term, short term, etc., etc., etc.
When my son gets my stuff someday, he will just go to my safe deposit boxes. They all have his name on them. Everything in them is now his.
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