does anyone collect coins with chopmarks? I have heard that most people see this sort of thing as damage, and I can see why - but that some people collect in this avenue. I guess my question is to these people: What do you specifically look for? Is it the original coin, or the mark itself? Are some marks more desirable - and why?
At one stage I was interested in this due to having found a couple of chop marks on coins I had. It is a fascinating subject, andi ended up buying a boklet written by FM Rose entitled `Chopmarks' printed in 2000 by Numismatics International, PO Box 670013, Dallas, Tx. The cost to me was $10 and I guess it's the most definitive piece of work on the subject of chopmarks around. The general rule of thumb seems to be that one or two chop marks on a coin is OK otherwise it is considered damage. I don't know if I can subscribe to that. I've seen a chopmarked US trade dollar recently slabbed as MS65. To me THAT is a contradiction if ever there was, but some people obviously disagree. On the other hand i've seen a M.Thereia Thaler which was chop marked in every possible available space...both sides! I missed the opportunity of buying it andhave regretted it ever since. It probably had nigh on every known chop mark on it My advice would be to get a hold of a copy of FM Rose's booklet and take it from there.
I only know one person who collects chops, and he doesn't post on this forum. He's never posted a rational explanation for collecting them in any thread I am aware of. Personally, I consider them to be damage, and ugly damage at that, so I avoid them like the plague, which means I pass up dates I need all the time in the dragon yens and Japanese Trade Dollars.
Ian,I have seen a few British Trade $1's with chopmarks.Although a lot of people consider them to be damaged items,the chopmarks themselves are of interest,as they were the merchants' test marks. This means that they stamped the coin to make sure that it was silver.I have got a 40 Centavos from the Philippines dated 1866 that has a single chopmark.The British Trade $1 was used mainly in Malaya,but it did circulate in Hong Kong & in China. As to the chopmarks on the Japanese silver 1 Yen & Trade $1,it is the official 'Gin' (meaning 'Silver') countermark of the Osaka & Tokyo mints.These are listed in Krause.
That is not completely accurate. All Japanese silver yen minted from 1870-1914, as well as Japanese Trade Dollars minted from 1875-77 can be found with one or more chopmarks. (The most chopped coin I have personally seen has more than two dozen chops - the exact number is undeterminable because of the overlapping.) Those chops were the marks of Asian merchants - mostly Chinese or Maylasian - who were certifying to the weight and purity of the bullion content. Applying the distinctive "Gin" counterstamp had an entirely dfferent historical purpose. In October, 1897 Japan revalued the gold yen, and changed from a combination silver/gold standard to an exclusively gold standard. For the next six months the silver yen were exchangeable for gold. Part of the demonetized silver coins were melted for use in minting subsidiary coins, and the rest were shipped to Taiwan for use as bullion silver. Before being exported, they were countermarked with the character for silver, in a circle, to prevent them from being returned to Japan for another shot at exchange for gold. The Gin countermark appears in a specific position - to the left or right of the "ichi" ("one") character on the reverse, while chopmarks may be applied anywhere on either side of the coin. Krause states as a fact (which many Japanese authorities are less certain bout) that the main Mint at Osaka applied the mark on the left side, and the subsidiary Tokyo Mint applied it to the right. An 1891 yen with marks on both sides, in the collection of the Bank of Japan. is the only known example of a double-countermarked coin. Chopmarks are of various size and shapes, and are generally much cruder than the Gin countermarks, which has fine lines that get badly blurred on cast forgeries. Countermarked coins which have also been chopped are not exceptionally rare, and were almost certainly chopped after being countermarked.. Of course, silver was subsequently remonetized, and minting of silver yen resumed in 1901. There are, however, no genuine 20th Century silver yen with the Gin counterstamp, although countermarked 1914 yen have appeared from time to time on EBay. The discussion of this subject in Modern Japanese Coinage by Michael Cummings is considerably more comprehensive than the one in Japanese Coinage by Jacobs & Vermuele. Cummings' coverage is the most extensive English language treatment of the subject that I am aware of.
It is the chopmarks on the British Trade $1's that really catch my interest.Has anyone seen chopmarks on Mexican or other Latin American coinage?
Some were, but some were also those of the local Warlords (tithes?). Every time a coin was presented as `exchange' in the far east it was first authenticated by a person duly designated to authenticate the metal content and there after marked with the appropriate `chop' of the Merchant House or Warlord accepting it as being genuine. Perhaps a chop of the authenticator too on occasion. I have seen chop marks on spanish colonial 8 reales, US trade dollars, Brit Trade Dollars, M Theresia thalers, French Ecu's, Japanese Yen and once on a Bernese 4 Franken. I've no doubt that if a coin were silver and it moved in China it had a chop mark (or three) placed on it, regardless of where it originated. The `Gin' coins as listed in KM is classed as an official counterstamp of Japan as opposed to a `chop' mark. It wasn't placed on the coin by anyone other than the Japanese govt. A `chop' on the other hand is usually a small character / symbol incused into the coin by hand using a sharp metal punch by authenticators in China (and India). Many of the very small chop marks are also `inked' so that they show up on the host quite readily. Occasionally some `chop marks' can consist of more than one character and be rather ornate in detail. There's lots of facets to collecting coins with `chops'. From where I live (which is not exactly close to the mecca of coin markets) hunting them out while sitting on the branch of a cactus plant waiting on specific marks showing up was a bit soul destroying. I did not actively pursue my interest much beyond a few coins. I still have the booklet though.
I was recently shown a 1794 Mexican Piece of 8 that has a lot of chopmarks.The most interesting one is a Swastika chopmark on the top of the left hand pillar on the reverse.
I recently found this thread via Google.It is the most informative one on the "Gin" countermark I have ever seen.Coins can't talk back to us but a chopmarked coin can tell us where its circulated.I find them fascinating.Probably the only way I can afford a Japan 1870 1 Yen or Japan Trade Dollar is to find one chopped.I recently purchased a 1878 1Yen Gin right VF at about 25% of Krause because of 9 neat chopmarks.
A chopmark is a stamp applied to a coin attesting to its acceptance by a merchant.My avatar has one under Miss Liberties outstretched arm.Its hard to see, sorry.They were applied by mostly Chinese and other Asians.I find them to be quite interesting.
I have a couple in my collection - one mexican 8 reales that has about half a dozen asian chops. I also have a spanish colonial mexican 2 reales that has been counterstamped with someone's initials, but I haven't found much on it, so I'm thinking it might have been an accounting issue or a merchant's private anti-theft device from the late 1700's.
I’ve seen Mexican 8reales that where chopmarked. Mexico also chopped or counterstamped (I believe it’s called) their own coins, some minted by privet banks.
I occassionally buy chopped coins. There are some great websites out there on them. There are different chops from different districts, in different scripts, with different rarity. As for me, I look for a coin with a single chop, and a smaller one. Some are large and disfigure the coin, the ones I look for are small and well struck. I like those that are not in a central place (cheek or eagle breast) and don't damage through to the other side of the coin. I have been able to purchase some trade dollars for about 25% of the market value for their condition with chop marks. Chops are not damage, but are part of the natural state for trade dollars. A circulated trade dollar should have a chop mark! Great part of history.
This beauty is a 1878 Japan 1 yen,Gin right. 8 chops on this side.I couldn't really afford this coin, but I got it at 25% of Krause,plus I like the chopmarks.Now if I could get a 1870 1 yen or a trade dollar I'd be in business.
I have a chopmarked 1903-S Philippine Peso. So apparently the practice of "chopping" lasted into the 20th century.
