CoinTalk

Welcome to Coin Talk! Register Now, it's easy and FREE!

Thousands of coin collectors, numismatists, coin dealers, bullion investors, and enthusiasts make Coin Talk their number one source for numismatic news, information about US and world coins, discussions and community.

You are currently viewing Coin Talk as a guest, which limits your access to content, contests and information. By joining our free community, you will be able to join in discussions, contact other members, place free advertisements, enter contests, and much more. Registration is easy and free. Register Now


Go Back   CoinTalk > Coin Forums > Coin Chat

Notices

Coin Chat Please use this section for discussion of numismatic topics that don't fit in other sections.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-20-2008, 11:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
You get what you pay for.
 
bqcoins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nebraska/Iowa
Posts: 4,760
My Mood:
The 1909 S VDB

The 1909 S VDB cent is probably one of the most sought after American coins in the numismatics. Think about it; nearly all collectors either got started collecting lincolns or collect lincolns seriously sometime whilst engaged in the hobby.

image courtesy coinfacts.com
The problem with this is that there were only 484,000 of these coins minted. Considering the low mintage, the survival rate of this coin was probably fairly high due to the fact it was a first year issue and lincoln was quite a popular figure.
When you combine a great ever growing demand with a finite possibly shrinking supply you can deduce two things. There will be a lot of collectors that never get their 1909 S VDB and there will be a lot of collectors that purchase a fake 1909 S VDB. In a market where the price for even a specimen in good is constantly rising and quickly approaching $1000, it would be far better to be in the first column than in the second. But if you find yourself in the position to purchase a 1909 S VDB, I 1) recommend buying a slabbed coin from a reputable TPG, and 2) know what you are looking for diagnostically on the coin and how to tell the real thing from a fake because even the "experts" get it wrong from time to time.

The first thing to note is to get your self a loupe that is 20X or better just for looking at the mint mark. Because this is the first thing to focus on. The same S mint mark was used on the lincoln cent from 1909 to 1917.

image courtesy oicoins
Note the arrow pointing to the die chip inside the upper loop of the S. ALL genuine s vdbs will have this. There is a notch in the upper serif and the mint mark is of an even width at top and bottom, with perfectly parallel serifs. The upper serif is even with the lower curve of the S and the lower serif is even with the upper curve of the S.

There were four obverse dies used to create the 1909 S VDBs.


Looking at the 4 images above you can see the placement of all the mint marks in relation to the date. They all have the same stylized S mint mark as described above. I will not go into great detail about the mint mark locations as the pictures describe it better than I could. This is the best representation I have ever found with regard to the mint mark placements.

Just a note: Die 4 is by and far the most common of all the dies and is the easiest to attribute.

The last diagnostic to key in on is on the reverse of the coin, the V.D.B. It is not recommended to use the periods on the reverse to determine authenticity, because of the fact that some were struck weakly and the periods can not be made out. Rather, the shape of the V, the bottom half of the D and the last two bars in the B should be considered. The V is quite distinct the left side should be uniformly thick from the top to the angle while the right side should narrow noticably starting thick at the top and thinning as it reaches the angle. The angle itself should be sharp. The lower curve of the D should angle slightly upwards on a real specimen as the middle bar of the B should rise from left to right on a slant and the bottom curve of the B should angle slightly upwards.


I hope that this information serves you well when it comes time and you find yourself in the enviable position of purchasing the ever coveted 1909 S VDB.
Attached Images
   
__________________
BQ
Sometime Numismatic Consultant
See my Bust Halves here: http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/f...albumview=grid
See my Holey coins here:http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/f...albumview=grid
bqcoins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 01:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
huldufolk
 
TheNoost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,281
My Mood:
Thanks 4 looking out 4 us
__________________


TheNoost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 08:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
Numismatist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 3,682
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks for the info BQ. Great post!
indianhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 02:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TC2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Egg Harbor Township, NJ
Posts: 341
Good information BQ. I'm going to print this one out. I'm making the '09-S VDB coin #1 on my to-get list for 2009.
__________________
Tom

ANA#R-3144468
TC2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
Toning Freak
 
Lehigh96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Poker Room
Posts: 3,012
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 2
What an awesome post. I will definitely use this info if I ever decide to purchase a 1909-S VDB. Love the toning on the one in the photo.
Lehigh96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
Coin Collector
 
Clinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood:
a great big T H A N K S for this highly informative article.

It's great to learn about our hobby!

Clinker
Clinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
Biggest Elvis fan
 
Coinfreak~24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,382
My Mood:
i'v seen that coin before
__________________
pm me if you need to talk.
Coinfreak~24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 07:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
You get what you pay for.
 
bqcoins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nebraska/Iowa
Posts: 4,760
My Mood:
the image is from coinfacts, somehow it got moved down past where I posted it. Strangely enough, I visited my shop today and my dealer asked me about a suspicious 1909 S VDB. The front looked great, but the VDB was clearly mangled after being cut off a regular 1909, you could see the superglue marks off the sides of each letter.
__________________
BQ
Sometime Numismatic Consultant
See my Bust Halves here: http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/f...albumview=grid
See my Holey coins here:http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/f...albumview=grid
bqcoins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 07:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
Numismatist
 
Leadfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,617
My Mood:
Very nice post!
Leadfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 07:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
logical123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, Illionois, USA
Posts: 146
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 1
Awesome post man!
__________________
Yeah, I like coins. Got a prob?
logical123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 11:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
The Lincoln-ator
 
Arizona Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dry Heat USA
Posts: 6,754
My Mood:
Excellent post. Excellent.

The image of the 4 mintmark positions is in the Wexler / Flynn book, a book every serious collector of the series would want. Out of print and difficult to locate, grab one if you ever see it.

Watch Ebay for that CoinFacts image as well, it is often used by scam sellers, you'd be suprised how many times that same coin was sold, lolo.
__________________
W.I.N.S / ANA / SLCC / Mesa Coin Club
I am a poker player ..."thats beyond trailer trash"
Joan Rivers on Celebrity Apprentice, 4/09
Hot Sauce Fanatic !!!
Arizona Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 11:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
*The King Of Jokes*
 
Phoenix21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 8,846
My Mood:
Very, very, well done man!!! Very nice job with the post! I learned a few things, thanks!

Phoenix
__________________
The Phoenix Ancient Collection
Phoenix21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 11:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
Fast Eddie
 
eddiespin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,128
Same here. Very good, BQ; thank you!
__________________
Betting money on horses is a sucker's game
-George Raft
eddiespin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 02:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
CEO of Brooklyn
 
mrbrklyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 10,092
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 3
Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn
Doug should move this to the permanent information section, IMO

Ruben
__________________
"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
mrbrklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 11:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
Fast Eddie
 
eddiespin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbrklyn View Post
Doug should move this to the permanent information section, IMO

Ruben
I'll second that. This should be in our numismatic resources section.
__________________
Betting money on horses is a sucker's game
-George Raft
eddiespin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
Would you like to support CoinTalk?

Coin Talk Code of Honor
1. Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.
2. Keep it clean, like a 1950s family television show.
3. If you don't like the coin, don't trash the person.

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Difference between 1909 Lincoln and 1909 VDB skane US Coins Forum 27 08-18-2009 02:51 PM
1909 VDB lincoln cent joedoedoe Coin Chat 9 03-08-2009 09:39 PM
1909 Vdb ernie11 US Coins Forum 16 04-30-2007 03:11 PM
Alterred 1909 s vdb Lincolns onlysdad US Coins Forum 10 09-08-2005 02:01 PM
how much is my 1909 vdb worth? dear john What's it Worth 2 11-17-2004 09:41 PM

You Rated this Thread:
» Newsletter
Sign up for CoinTalk's Newsletter
enter your email address below.
» Unanswered Posts
Do You Have the Answer?
» Sponsors

» Today's Top Posters
Top Posters in Last 1 Days
[25]
[22]
[15]
[13]
[13]
[13]
[12]
[12]
[12]
[11]

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 AM.


vBAdvertise v1.0.0 Copyright ©2009, PixelFX Studios
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios
Copyright 2008 CoinTalk
"Wiki" powered by VaultWiki v2.5.0.
Copyright © 2008 - 2009, Cracked Egg Studios.