1680 French coin w/ U.F.O.?

Hi all, I was watching a UFO/alien "documentary" on the TV tonight, and they mentioned a coin from France minted in 1680 that had an image of a UFO on it. My Krause only goes back to 1900. Can anybody help me out with some more info on this coin?
Thanks.

Terry

 

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Whoops!! My apologies to the Moderators and the forum as well. I guess I should have put this thread in the World & Ancients forum. I don't suppose any of you Moderators would move it over there, or should I start a thread myself?

I'm not used to having so many specialized forums, at CW we only had two.

 

Busts of rulers, crosses, crowned shields, uncrowned shields, fleur-de-lis of various sizes, single and double-headed eagles and combinations of the above (including a beautiful floral cross with fleur-de-lis), abound in the 50 pages devoted to France and the French States in the 2d Ed. 17th Century Krause; but nothing that even remotely resembles a UFO, IMHO.

 

Well....there were numerous privy marks used for mint directors and engravers so I guess someone looking at these might think `that looks like a UFO'...but that raises the question `what does a UFO look like?'

If someone would define that, then you could tell if there is a privy mark that looks like it. Otherwise it's a bit of a wild goose chase.

 

Thanks for moving my post, and I appreciate the repliesThe coin that they showed looked to be about the size of a silver dollar, made of copper, and the"UFO" was rather large, covering most of one side of the coin. (not sure if it was the obverse or reverse) Much too large to be a privey mark IMO. They only showed the coin for a couple of seconds while making a very brief reference to it, but from my recollection, it looked like your "typical classic flying disc", viewed at an angle, tilted to the left.

I will try to draw it out the best that I can and post it. Maybe that will help.

 

Why not try contacting the producer of the show, through the station you saw it on?

 

I may have to, seeing as how my scanner just died out on me. (Man, I really need to upgrade this old system!!) Spent all that time drawing it out and now I don't have any way of putting it up.

Thing is... I can't remember what channel it was on!! History, Discovery, something like that.

 

From what you describe I can safely say that it certainly wasn't a french coin.....unless it had been well and truly tampered with. There are no such coins recorded in any french reference book I have ever seen or heard of.

Ian

 

I know about the piece he is talking about but it is NOT a coin, it is a French jeton. Unfortunately I don't now its catalog number and I don't have a picture of it.

Found the picture, I'll see if I can locate the identification.

 

That's it right there! I thought the "UFO" was larger than that, but like I said, they only showed the coin for two seconds at the most.

O.K. Here I go, Is it really supposed to be a UFO? Looks more like a giant mushroom from Alice in Wonderland to me!

What is a jeton? How is it different from a coin?

Thanks for the help Conder101, you got me pushed in the right direction. I would appreciate any more info that you might come across as well.

I wouldn't mind adding one to the collection. A TRUE First Flight coin!

 

Now that jeton sure is an odd thing As for what that "UFO" actually is, seems that nobody really knows. Here we have an Italian guess: potrebbe invece rappresentare l'Ancile, lo scudo sacro inviato da Giove al re di Roma Numa Pompilio.
http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_7.htm
The author suggests it could (as in "perhaps, who knows") be a holy shield sent by Jupiter to Numa Pompilius, the legendary second king of Rome.

He also provides a link to a French language page which does not really have a solution either: Elle fait probablement référence à une anecdote très secondaire, peut-être un épisode de la guerre que le prince de Condé livrait aux Français et pendant lequel une chose est arrivée "au bon moment"
http://cendrars.club.fr/enigma2/ovni25.htm
That means the "UFO" could refer to a relatively minor event in the war, involving the prince of Condé; something that came just at the right moment". No extraterrestrians though, it seems

Christian

 

Very interesting!! Are jetons something that have been counterfeited much? Doing a search on ebay shows that they are relatively inexpensive.

I feel like Luke Skywalker... slowly being lured deep into the darkside.

 

And/or gambling tokens.

 

Jetons commenced in life as reckoning counters. Before europeans got into using arabic numerals and arithmetic, counting was done using a reckoning board (looking a bit like a checker board) and counters. Where the checker / counter was placed on the board determined the value of a transaction. A bit like an abacus.

The word `jeton' stems from the french verb `jeter' = to throw. That is a `throw piece'.

OK so that's the origin of the term, but only the start of the world of jetons.

In France their function changed from being `counters' to being gifts or presentation pieces minted for specific functions or bodies like the Royal Household, Chambers of Commerce, Armed forces, others too numerous to mention. Many of them are fine works of art in their own right. Mintage numbers are generally in the low thousands...and yes many of them are indeed exceptionally cheap considering their mintage and the history behind them.

A good example of a jeton (with an American connection) is the Castorland jeton. The jeton was minted and issued in France as a presentation piece to Board Members every time the Board sat to discuss the Castorland Colony (in New York State).

Be careful though, there are many restrikes out there so don't go in over your head before learning how to differentiate the original from the restrike. That being said, apart from high demand items (like Franco American jetons) most jetons you are likely to come across are originals. Many were minted in different metals, usually copper, brass, and silver, and (rarely) gold.

Finally, jetons were possibly used as token coinage in some places, especially the bronze and silver ones.

I find it a fascinating subject area

 

It's NOT the darkside. It is route to enlightenment .....see the light?...feel the force?..... ;-)

 

Well done that man!! Feuardent # 12527 apparently.

The item has been determined as representing a `celestial shield'. (The french penchant for the dramatic and the classic). They often show scenes from the classics on jetons and the legends tend to be quotes from same. I don't know which particular classic this jeton quotes from, but I am 100% certain that it does. OK, so here we are supposed to be seeing a shield coming out of the clouds, (presumably to be followed shortly by some god or another arriving just in the nick of time to save the day) . Personally, the item looks more like a chariot wheel to me than a shield. That would make more sense to me given the number of jetons that have celestial chariots on them. Certainly it's not depicting any alien arriving to help earth sort out its many difficulties, so UFO-logists are just dreaming if they think otherwise.

Here's an example of what might have been seen had the clouds not been so thick (note the wheel on the chariot)



and if it WAS supposed to be a shield, here is what might have been in the other hand



That one should really get the UFO-logists going ...shades of Zardoz here

Ian

 

I am interested in this coin. Does anyone know where or how I would go about getting this coin? The coin being the 1680 ufo jeton. Thanks for your time.

 

I'm kinda taking a liking to this whole jeton thing. Can anyone recommend a good reference book on them? The more comprehensive the better.

 

Michael Mitchiner has produced a three volume referencve in English on them covering early / mediaeval; UK jetons; and the Lowlands and France. Each volume costs around $150.

Feuardent is THE French reference (original 1914 edition hardback is in 4 volumes). I have seen copies of Feuardent sell for over $500. However there is a softback reprint that is available for €180 or so. It is only very rarely that you will see one make an appearance on the `second hand' market. In other words cheap reading just doesn't exist and is probably one of the reasons why jetons remain a relatively low key collecting field.

I could do with it remaining that way until i've managed to find all the pieces i'm after. ;-)

Ian

Other than these you have auction catalogues and other French authors looking at specific types of jeton.