French teston with a blundered legend

Ian · 10-31-2004, 10:59 AM

As mentioned in the thread on Doug's 1650 1/2 ecu, I had a memory of having a french coin with a blundered legend. I rummaged through my french stuff and found it.

It's not in any condition to get excited about, but then again, french coinage of this period isn't found in much better condition (for the kind of money I have available to me that is).

It's a silver teston of Henri III dated 1576 from Bayonne mint (roughly the size of a British florin).

The obverse legend is missing an R. Whereas it reads FAN it should read FRAN.

1575 saw the introduction of a new silver coin called the `franc' (also known as the livre d'argent). However, the striking of silver `francs' only started at the end of 1576. At that time these were the largest silver coins ever to have been introduced in France (just shy of dollar size but thinner).

The example shown is a `franc au col plat' and has been struck on an oversized flan with a flaw which leaves the date somewhat obscured but identifiable as 158(8). It has a nice strong portrait of Henri III.

Ian

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 11:16 AM

I like both!

Portrait coinage is what does it for me more than anything, king/shield... although king and anything else will do.

I do like the odd gold coin with just shields. Like Querter nobles and the one you picture on the other thread... It does look like a whopping great chunk of silver that 1588 one. Armada year eh?

Ian · 10-31-2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvester

I like both!

Portrait coinage is what does it for me more than anything, king/shield... although king and anything else will do.

I do like the odd gold coin with just shields. Like Querter nobles and the one you picture on the other thread... It does look like a whopping great chunk of silver that 1588 one. Armada year eh?

It's the portraiture that does it for me too. As far as collecting by `type' goes, i've been keen to get a coin with the portrait of every french king (or ruler as far as the provincial coinage is concerned).

Obviously not every french king had portrait coinage, so that `goal' is only do-able to a certain extent. Even then it is still a real challenge.

Here's a couple or three of examples:

The first is a portrait teston of Francis I
The second is of Antoine of Lorraine. It is really dark toned and doesn't scan too well. Both he and Francis have notable proboscii :-)
The third is Louis XIII, this time a half franc from Toulouse mint. The date is off flan but circa 1627. It is difficult to find silver coinage of Louis XIII with a portrait. That one isn't too bad.

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 12:48 PM

Not bad at all!

Coins like that do appeal to me. I'll think about doing one of those French collections one day, starting with the Bourbons.

At the minute i'm in the middle of doing an English monarch set from Æthelred II-Charles I, i was going to do a Scottish one upto Mary Queen of Scots.

When do Scottish pennies start? Which king? My 1985 Spinks only starts at David I, which is a must cos it would tie in with my Stephen collection.

I'll just ignore Malcolm IV.

**GDJMSP** · 10-31-2004, 01:19 PM

Nice coins Ian

But I hate threads like this

Inevitably they have a certain effect on me - I want one of those - and I want one of those - and I want one of those over there too

And oh yeah - yeah - gimme one of those

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 01:48 PM

Only one of those GD? But i was gonna sell you three!

**GDJMSP** · 10-31-2004, 01:50 PM

You just wait - I do happen to have more coins on the way. Your turn is comin pal

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 01:55 PM

You've been saying that ages now... a bit old hat!

Ian · 10-31-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvester

Not bad at all!

When do Scottish pennies start? Which king? My 1985 Spinks only starts at David I, which is a must cos it would tie in with my Stephen collection.

I'll just ignore Malcolm IV.

To quote Seaby " David I appears to have been the first independent Scottish king to issue coins, an event no doubt allied to the capture of Carlisle by the scots under david and his son Prince henry in 1136, which gave them an established mint and nearby silver mines...."

That does not mean that there were no coins in circulation prior to David I, just that none of them were (legally) minted in Scotland. :-)

Aye, Malcolm IV can be a bit tricky to find without a sizeable wad to help with the searching. ;-)

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 02:11 PM

Right David I sounds good, it's all of the Anarchy period which fascinates me, although David I stuff ain't cheap by the looks of it, but then neither is Stephen's non-Watford stuff. And then there's Matilda.

Hmm Prince Henry, it's listed under the Scottish section, but if memory serves correct there are also some under the English section with him as Earl/Duke of Northumberland?

Now would they be the same issues or two different issues?

Ian · 10-31-2004, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvester

Right David I sounds good, it's all of the Anarchy period which fascinates me, although David I stuff ain't cheap by the looks of it, but then neither is Stephen's non-Watford stuff. And then there's Matilda.

Hmm Prince Henry, it's listed under the Scottish section, but if memory serves correct there are also some under the English section with him as Earl/Duke of Northumberland?

Now would they be the same issues or two different issues?

From memory, David I invaded England during the English civil war at that time. Stephen signed a treaty (1139) which ceded Northumbria to the Scots. It was ruled by Henry who struck coins in his name there. So while contemporaneous with, they are separate issues from those of David I. Henry died in 1152 (a year before his father). Quite a nice tie in for you with Stephen et al.

sylvester · 10-31-2004, 02:28 PM

no Ian i meant, are there Scottish coins of Henry and English coins of Henry? Or are they all the same issue of Henry's?

**GDJMSP** · 10-31-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvester

You've been saying that ages now... a bit old hat!

Perhaps - but how many times have you shorted out your keyboard drooling over it ?

Still effective I'd say

Two words for you - hammered gold.

Ian · 10-31-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvester

no Ian i meant, are there Scottish coins of Henry and English coins of Henry? Or are they all the same issue of Henry's?

I thought that was what you meant but took the soft option :-)

Bear in mind that Henry (Earl of Northumberland and Huntingdon) died before his father and as such never succeeded to the Scottish throne. As such all of Henry's coinage was struck in England for use in England.

They are classed as Scottish basically because at that time Northumberland was to all intents and purposes `Scottish', and Henry was Scottish.

The coinage circulated alongside that of David I and were struck at Carlisle, Corbridge and (according to Mark Davidson) possibly Bamborough.

I suspect that is why you will find some cataloguers listing them under `England' and some under `Scotland'.

The issues are all aparently one and the same (politically / geographically speaking) although there were different type issues.