Another eBay Nightmare Story!

huntsman53 · 12-22-2007, 01:54 AM

Well folks, my wonderful eBay experiences of late, just continue to get better and better! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel like I am in the Star Trek Movie, the "Undiscovered Country" where the Klingons are about the fire on the Enterprise and Mr. Zulu keeps asking, "Shiields Captain....Shields Captain"! I sure could have used those Shields over the past two and a half weeks of selling on eBay and one win and purchase on eBay! Not to bore you any further, I will get the my latest woes that is currently in a Dispute Mode through PayPal and which may escalate to a Claim Mode and may eventually involve much more.

On 12/10/07, I bid on and won what I believe is a new 1955-P "Doubled Die Variety" Lincoln Cent on eBay that was listed as a Poorman's Double Die! The link below is to the eBay Auction and the pictures clearly show that this is either a new Doubled Die Variety or an unknown Die Stage of the DDO #2. I can also provide pictures that I copied from the Auction and edited to crop out any un-needed background as well as separated the images in picture #1 of the Auction! I have attached a few pictures of the coin that I received and you can clearly see that it is not the coin that I won in the Auction and which I paid for on 12/11/07.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=018

Due to the price that the bidding went up to and which I paid for the coin, the eBay Seller apparently realized that the coin was/is special and decided to do a switch-a-roo and send me another 1955-P "Poorman's Double Die" Lincoln Cent that he or someone else had manipulated (intentionally damaged) in an attempt to defraud me of the item that I had won and paid for. I knew that something up with the transaction when I had not received the coin on Monday and after sending the a second email to the Seller inquiring as to whether the coin had been shipped yet and I received a notice from PayPal that the Seller had just purchased the shipping label to ship the coin a full week after the Auction ended and 6 days since I had paid for the coin. Well, I waited a couple more days and when it had not arrived on Wenesday, I emailed the Seller again. Other than the automatic notice from PayPal, I never received any correspondence from the Seller. It must have taken the Seller the entire time period of the delay in shipping to locate a 1955-P "Poorman's Double Die" that was close in appearance to the one that I won and paid for and with some ingenuous manipulation (damaging the coin and adding spotting with what composition, I have no idea), made the coin appear close to the one that I won and purchased but without the Doubled Die doubling.

The following copied emails give some more information on the story and the Seller's decision that he would refund my money if I return the coin that he sent me. However, after consulting with eBay online and PayPal over the phone, I filed a Dispute upon their recommendation. If the Seller does not refund my money, then this will escalalate to a Claim and PayPal will then have me send the coin that I received from the Seller, so that it can be examined by an Expert Investigator and the results may cause Charges to be filed. Please forgive he tone of my emails to the Seller but I was steaming at the time, fire and brimstone was about to burst forth from my eyes and nostrils and I had to vent!

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The following is a copy of the first message I sent to the Seller (xxxxxxxxxxx) via eBay's email system after receiving the coin:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

Mr. Shelton,

I received the coin today but it is clearly not the 1955-P Cent that I won on 12/10/07 & paid for via PayPal on 12/11/07! I work for the U.S. Dept. for Commerce & did not fall off the Turnip Truck yesterday! I copied the pictures of the coin from the Auction listing, had prints made at Wal-Mart & took both the prints & the unopened package containing the coin to the local Post Office in Jefferson City. I had the Postal Clerk open the package & he and the PostMaster both verified that the coin received was not the coin in the pictures & which I won on eBay on 12/10/07. The Clerk and the PostMaster both will sign statements as witnesses & testify if need be, that the coin received is clearly not the one in the pictures & is not the coin I won in the Auction. You have 2 choices to rectify this situation! 1) Either send me the coin that I actually won on eBay, or 2) Refund all of my money including the shipping, Insurance & Delivery Confirmation costs.

Frank E. Ferrell

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The following is a copy of the first reply I received from the Seller (xxxxxxxxxxx):

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Hi,

I sent the coin that I pictured. Please read the auction. I used a 20X magnification. I pride myself in my dealings. I did say no returns in advance of the auction. I would not question your sending the same coin I sent back to me. I do offer 100% satisfaction. If you would like to return the item please do so. I will refund you in full less the insurance fee, as that was optional. This is my offer to you, nothing more, nothing less. I am going to be out of state until December 30, I can continue to deal with thes matter on my return. In the mean time, please have a pleasant holiday!

- xxxxxxxxxxx

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The following is a copy of my reply (second message) to the Seller:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

Mr. Shelton,

You clearly did not send the coin pictured in the Auction & I have the proof & witnesses to prove it! It matters not whether the pictures were 20x magnification or 10x magnification, the coin that I received is not the coin I won on 12/10/07 & paid for on 12/11/07. The coin that I received is what is sometimes called a 1955-P "Poorman's Doubled Die" Lincoln Cent that has had the "1" in the Date intentionally damaged to make it appear that it is the coin that I won in the Auction but is not the same coin that I won. This constitutes fraud & will be dealt with swiftly unless you rectify the situation & fulfill either choice (Number 1 or Number 2) in my previous email. I fully intend to return this coin to you but not until I am guaranteed that you are willing to rectify the situation. If you are unwilling to rectify the situation, then I will bring everything at my disposal to see that you are brought to justice on this fraud & that I get the satisfaction that I am due!

Respectfully...Frank E. Ferrell

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The following is a copy of the second reply that I received from the Seller:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Sir,

As stated in my previous email, I am offering you 100% satisfaction guarentee. RETURN IT and I will refund you as I stated in my previous email. And the auction does say poor mand double die. Now I am not going to argue with you over any of the circumstances. I have offered you your refund, and have told you I am going to be away until Dec 30. When I return, and have the coin I will refund it back to your paypal account. IT is very simple matter, you return I refund.... Now as I said before, nothing more nothing less, this is what I have to offer as I pride myself in customer satisfaction. Look at my feedback, I have near 1000 positives, and I am a powerseller. My feedback does speak for itself, your not dealing with a con, or someone who wants someone to be unhappy. I thought that this would happen as I paid 20 bucks for that coin, and I did not understand why it sold for that much. So, in saying all of this, I hope you can settle in peace of mind that I am offering you option 2. Thank you and have a pleasant holiday. PS, I will not have access to a computer to check my ebay messages for at least 3 days as I am traveling, so in the mean time, please sit tight, I will get abck to you when I have access again if you should need anything else. Thanks again.

- xxxxxxxxxxx

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The following is a copy of my reply (third message) I sent to the Seller:

Mr. Shelton,

I will return the coin per your offer! However, in all decency, you should refund all of my money including the shipping, Insurance and Delivery Confirmation costs as the coin I received is not the coin I won and paid for! Why should I be out the shipping, Insurance and Delivery Confirmation costs for an item that I clearly did not win and pay for?!

I am sure that you suddenly realized that the coin was apparently not just a 1955-P "Poorman's Double Die" Lincoln Cent due to the final bid price on the coin! There were many other folks (bidders) besides myself that knew this to be the case from the pictures, thus the high final bid price. I fully expected that you would be honorable and that I would receive the coin pictured in the Auction but since this is not the case, I have notified folks in the Error Coin Community about this situation. Good luck on selling the coin to anyone else because now that they are aware of the situation, they will more than likely decline any offer to purchase the coin and will refuse to attribute the coin whatsoever!

I will ship the coin that I received back to you tomorrow but will be taking detailed pictures of the coin for any further litigation that may be needed in case if you do not comply with my request and your offer!

Respectfully...Frank E. Ferrell

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As this Seller is apparently out of town as he stated (if that was the truth) or just taking time to weigh his options and course, I will let you all know of the outcome of this matter, if and when it is settled or excalates.

Frank

Arizona Jack · 12-22-2007, 02:40 AM

You sir, are freaking me out here. I bought a coin from this seller a cpl weeks ago. BIN / make offer. My offer was reasonable and accurate for coin pictured, but significantly lower than the BIN. Offer accepted.

Coin I received was not coin pictured. It was a small enough cost, I decided to eat the $$$ and not deal with them anymore, and I new we would just trade negs, so no bother, no email no nothing. I wrote it off. With all that was going on at the time, and my busy schedule that week, I just shook my head and cursed them under my breath.

I see a trend here. Scary. Your only option is return for a refund and eat the experience. Although the coin pictured is not the famous 55 DDO #1,or even DDO #2, it does show significant doubling, a good conversation piece. If you get your money back, I'd take it.

Leadfoot · 12-22-2007, 02:59 AM

Huntsman,

I am sorry to hear of your situation.

Neg him, get PayPal to reverse the payment, and be done with it...Mike

p.s. AJ, in the future, consider taking the retalitory negative, your buyers/sellers will understand, and you might help a future bidder from making a mistake.

rlm's cents · 12-22-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leadfoot

Huntsman,

I am sorry to hear of your situation.

Neg him, get PayPal to reverse the payment, and be done with it...Mike

p.s. AJ, in the future, consider taking the retalitory negative, your buyers/sellers will understand, and you might help a future bidder from making a mistake.

I would strongly suggest that you do not neg him - YET. That should be the last thing you do. That may be the straw that pushes him to be totally non-cooperative. Any cooperation you can get now is a plus.

Arizona Jack · 12-22-2007, 03:41 AM

Yes, While you have him in return mode, no neg, no way. Get your money back. You see, thats the problem here. Even tho we have 2 coins from same seller switched, he might just skate with no neg at all. The feedback system has failed us again.
While he certainly deserves it, fear of a retaliatory neg sucks. Any coin switcher should not get away with just refunding $$$ on those who catch it, but.........

I'm at a loss here. I just took 2 negs last week. It really just has to be, be a sharp astute buyer and watch out. This forum will educate buyers much more than any neg on his feedback would. Look st some of the sellers out there, Abon has a 99% something or other with 500 some negs. Buyers are lined up to throw money away.

rlm's cents · 12-22-2007, 03:50 AM

Nothing I said implied or should be read to imply that he should not get a neg. He absolutely should. My only comment on leadfoot's process was the order that it be done. Nothing about what should be done.

spock1k · 12-22-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Jack

You sir, are freaking me out here. I bought a coin from this seller a cpl weeks ago. BIN / make offer. My offer was reasonable and accurate for coin pictured, but significantly lower than the BIN. Offer accepted.

Coin I received was not coin pictured. It was a small enough cost, I decided to eat the $$$ and not deal with them anymore, and I new we would just trade negs, so no bother, no email no nothing. I wrote it off. With all that was going on at the time, and my busy schedule that week, I just shook my head and cursed them under my breath.

I see a trend here. Scary. Your only option is return for a refund and eat the experience. Although the coin pictured is not the famous 55 DDO #1,or even DDO #2, it does show significant doubling, a good conversation piece. If you get your money back, I'd take it.

didn't i tell you to quit while we were ahead i have quit for 2008 at least and i would advise you take a break too. coin talk can substitute for the need of coins

Arizona Jack · 12-22-2007, 04:36 AM

yer killin me

I have a need, a craving. I picked up a cpl nice circ's last night, I have my eye on a pair of 09-S's and a slabber VDB thats gorgeous this weekend.

I must spend

spock1k · 12-22-2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Jack

yer killin me

I have a need, a craving. I picked up a cpl nice circ's last night, I have my eye on a pair of 09-S's and a slabber VDB thats gorgeous this weekend.

I must spend

dont do it. i learned my lesson beleive me control it before it controls you. the more money you have the more it will control you

Treashunt · 12-22-2007, 07:17 AM

Frank:
Wow, I am very sorry to hear about your experience.
First questionable item was why did the sleer pay the ridiculous amount of $20 for that coin if he believed that it was a Poor Man's DD?
I hope that it all works out, but that seller should be banned from ebay, they (and we) don't need sellers like him around.
After the transaction is finished, (and you get your refund) we should ban together and get him kicked off the web.

I am sure that if we can get the membership of CT together to write to ebay as a group and if some (like Jack) offer their experiences that we can do something to him!
Best of luck and don't let it ruin your holiday.

P.S. I wish that you had gotten the real coin, that would have been a massive find!

huntsman53 · 12-22-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Jack

You sir, are freaking me out here. I bought a coin from this seller a cpl weeks ago. BIN / make offer. My offer was reasonable and accurate for coin pictured, but significantly lower than the BIN. Offer accepted.

Coin I received was not coin pictured. It was a small enough cost, I decided to eat the $$$ and not deal with them anymore, and I new we would just trade negs, so no bother, no email no nothing. I wrote it off. With all that was going on at the time, and my busy schedule that week, I just shook my head and cursed them under my breath.

I see a trend here. Scary. Your only option is return for a refund and eat the experience. Although the coin pictured is not the famous 55 DDO #1,or even DDO #2, it does show significant doubling, a good conversation piece. If you get your money back, I'd take it.

Jack,

I think that you have 60 days to file a Dispute with PayPal (if that is how you paid) and probably the same amount of time with eBay! You should go ahead a file a Dispute as this Seller has done this same thing in the past but I thought that he was over his bad ways. However, that appears to not be the case considering you and I both got taken! If enough Buyers file Disputes against him which apparently has not been the case in the past, and like Treas said, if we ban together then we might get eBay to boot him! At the least, payPal will close his Account! I doubt that it would keep him off very long as he will probably have someone create an account that he can use to sell items.

Thank you all for your kind words and your encouragement!

Frank

codydude815 · 12-22-2007, 02:16 PM

Wow, this guys just a con artist. Just look at this listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/Rainbow-Toned-Mi...QQcmdZViewItem. And this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/GEM-Proof-1953-D...QQcmdZViewItem. I actually sent him a responce to this one; "Im sorry, but there is an error in your listing. There has never been a proof coin made in denver. All you have is an uncirculated 1953-D cent worth nothing more than a few cents."

**GDJMSP** · 12-22-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codydude815

There has never been a proof coin made in denver.

That's almost true, there was one. Click Here

rotobeast · 12-22-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDJMSP

That's almost true, there was one. Click Here

What about the 1964 Peace Dollar ?
LOL

Frank, skip Ebay, Brother.
Put some of your stuff up here in the Open Forum, along with requests.
I'm sure you'd be far better off dealing with the great folks that frequent CoinTalk.