QUAVIET

This question may have been answered before but I am new and have not researched this site. The question concerns a NGC 1925-S 10C MS-66. Why would people pay a lot more for a similar coin certified PCGS? I thought that PCGS and NGC were equal in reputation. Also the NGC coins look better than the PCGS coins when viewed with or without magnification at auction sites. Does NGC clean coins via NCS and the coin package does not reflect this thus lowering the value? An expert at the auction site wrote me that some collectors prefer PCGS over NGC on certain coins with no other explaination. Thank You, Robert Siebert

jody526

I believe that many people are afraid that they will "get taken" if they spend a lot of money for a coin that doesn't come with some kind of guaranty.

If I were buying an expensive coin, I would want to view it in hand. That way I could tell if it had any problems.

Oh yeah. The PCGS Registry is more popular, and has more people competing on it, than does NGC.

GDJMSP

Howdy QUAVIET - Welcome to the Forum !!

Yes this has been discussed many times and in depth - the last time fairly recently. Rather than rehash it all again - I urge you to read the previous posts on the subject.

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GDJMSP

The following is a response I made to the same question on another forum. I thought it might help out here as well.



That's a good question - best answer I've come up with is because of better advertising. If you say something is so for a long enough time - pretty soon people begin to believe it.

In my opinion what went a long ways in perpetuating this perception was their internet coin forum. The PCGS forum was around for quite a while before NGC made one. And it might also have something to do with the fact that for years and years NGC would not slab modern coins. They have only been doing so for 2 or 3 yrs now. And modern coins are and have been extremely popular for some time. I would say they make up a large percentage of the overall coin market.

So when only one of the two most trusted companies grades modern coins - that's where all the collectors go to have their coins slabbed. It became a case of "my dog's better than your dog".

So when a new collector or someone new to having their coins slabbed found the PCGS forum - naturally they were told PCGS is only company to use. That they grade more conservatively etc etc. And these folks were being told this by other collectors - so they believed it. And pretty soon the snowball effect took over and more and more people began to believe it. It didn't have anything to do with whether it was true or not - but so and so said so - so it must be true.

Personally - I wouldn't pay 10 cents more for a coin in a PCGS slab - or any other slab. I pay what I think the coin is worth - period. As to why others do pay more - if you ask me it's for nothing else but bragging rights. They want to be able to go on the various coin forums or to their coin clubs and brag to everybody that they got such and such coin graded such and such by PCGS. And because of this perception that PCGS is best or used to be is so pervasive in the coin market - that only added to the perception. Like I said a snowball.

But all snowballs melt sooner or later. And the PCGS snowball has been melting now for about 2 yrs. Collectors are becoming more educated and knowledgeable and they are beginning to trust their own eyes instead of what they are told by other collectors. I'd say that in another year or so - this anomaly of PCGS slabbed coins bringing higher prices will disappear altogether.

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jody526

Yeah, I was gonna say that, but I thought I'd give someone else a chance.

QUAVIET

Dear jody526, Thank you for your response. The reason I ask is that I recently purchased this coin from Heritage Auctions. Would you view my coin and compare it with another? I am sure that you already know how to do this but I will give directions. At the Heritage Coin site place your cursor under Auctions. A drop down happens and then please click on Pemanent Auction Archives. A search page appears. Type in 1925-S 10C and then search. A list of past coins sold appears. The coin I bought is #5871. A month after I bought my coin a similar coin sold for a lot less. This coin is #5873. Is there an explaination as to why this coin sold for so much less than the other coins of this type? If you click on the picture of the coin it will magnify. I am trying to create a coin collection to pass down but don't have a clue to the wide price variations. Thank You Robert

ziggy29

There is a perception that many have that PCGS is better. Thus you sometimes see PCGS coins selling for more, which feeds an ugly cycle of events: The properly graded NGC and ANACS coins wind up being crossed into PCGS holders, whereas the poorly graded stuff (ALL services have clunkers sometimes) remains. The next result is that NGC and ANACS coins look more overgraded than PCGS coins, on average, which makes MORE people cross into PCGS holders, rinse, lather, repeat.

The market perception is driving crossovers into PCGS for most properly graded coins, and it causes an unfair impression of the various TPGs.

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"Free speech is not to be regulated like diseased cattle and impure butter. The audience that hissed yesterday may applaud today, even for the same performance."

-- William O. Douglas (1898-1980), U.S. Supreme Court Justice

satootoko

A distinct possibility is too many people buying the slab, not the coin.

GDJMSP

Robert -

A search of Heritage provides a list of twelve 1925-S MS66 FB Mercury dimes that have sold from Feb. 1993 to date. Four of them were graded by NGC and range in price from $3,881 to $5,520. Eight of the coins were graded by PCGS and ranged in price from $5,750 to $13,800 - with 4 of those coins selling for over $12,000.

Curiously - the coins which brought the highest prices are in my opinion among the worst of the lot - even though they were all graded by the same company, PCGS and of the same grade. And it's not the coin market changing either. For the 4 most expensive coins sold from Aug. of 2000 to last month - with the most expensive coin being the one sold in 2000.

First of all, what I would urge you to do is to quit spending large amounts of money on coins when you don't understand what you are buying and why it is or is not worth the asking price.

Secondly I would suggest that you do the same search I did under Completed Auctions - Mercury dimes - 1925-S MS66 FB. Then look at each of those coins sold and compare it to yours. You'll see that your coin is indeed much nicer than many of the others. And you'll see that there is no rhyme or reason for the prices realized.

The price a coin brings at an auction like this is for two reasons - 1 who it is that is buying it and 2 why they are buying it. All too often these coins are purchased for outrageous prices by people who wish to compete in the Registry programs. They will often pay any price just to move their collection up in the scoring. To me - that's crazy.

The reasons for the disparity between the realized prices for identically graded coins by NGC and PCGS have already been explained. It may sound too simple and far fetched to be true. But use your own eyes - look at the coins found in that search - and you will see it is true.

That's about the best advice I can give you.

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jody526

Robert,

The explaination that GDJMSP has given, reflects my position on the subject almost exactly.

There's really nothing more I can add.

As I said in my first post, the PCGS Registry carries more clout than does NGC's.
When it comes to the Registry sets, it's not about the coins, it's about the total number of points that can be accumulated in order to out score the competition.

This is what's known as creating an artificial market, and then putting a huge spin on it.

nds76

The Coin Vault on that shopping channel really pushes and brags up NGC. They must have some deal with them.

David

jody526

N.G.C. does indeed have a "deal" with the Coin Vault, David.

A couple of other outfits they have a "deal" with include:

The P.N.G.

and...

The A.N.A.

QUAVIET

Thanks a lot for the scoop. With the $3.8K coin I could see scratches and pitting. This I did not see on my $5.5K coin. I also liked the fact that it had a glimmering shine which indicates that no one has baked or dipped it. I was looking for support for my purchase and thank you for inspecting my coin. I suspect that coin values are rising so I did not go back over 6 months to check prices at Heritage. You are also correct about Coin Vault. I watch this show for entertainment. Robert (I think that is his name) puts out some good info but also pushes NGC which he puts on the same bar as PCGS. As more new collectors get involved and look for a place to invest their money, they will realize what I already have, and you will see NGC prices rise and PCGS fall until they reach a common ground or you will see NGC prices rise up to the PCGS level. This only as long as they keep their standards high. I only buy PCGS or NGC and will not look down my nuismatic nose at NGC slabs as compared to PCGS. LOL. Thanks again for your input. An amateur.

Ken Strassberg

I have a similar question posted today. It seems that for coin trading purposes, coins that are graded by PCGS are preferred "commodities" over NGC and others. This is like some kind of standard (right or wrong) that has been set by high-end dealers to establish a sight unseen benchmark. This then produces a premium price that I believe is not intended for the true collector but rather for the coin investor.

williamtipton

I know one thing......myself, Im too unlearned about coins yet to risk getting ripped with a fake or something.

I figure till Im better at spotting fakes or whatever, Im better off paying few extra bucks having the gents a PCGS decide if a coin is real or not.

I just dont trust my abilities yet....hopefully someday tho :-)