rasputin41

I'm hoping someone on this Forum can give me some info on this coin. I've attached a merged photo of the head and tail of the coin. the photo accurately depicts the coin with the exception that the copper color is a deeper hue.

The coin was received in change in 1985 or 86. The measurements are normal for a 1983 copper clad penny. It weighs 2.5 grams, the diameter is .750", the thickness is .057". The head of the coin is normal. The tail has a mirror image of the front. The date, lettering, image of Lincoln on the tail are slightly hollowed. Part of the Lincoln Memorial, and lettering that are on the tail can be seen and are in the right areas, but are slightly tilted.The closest error description that I could find to describe the coin is a Brockage error.

I know very little about coins. Can anyone give me info on the error type, and if the coin has any value?

Thanks!

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Phoenix21

Unfortunatly, it looks like a squeeze job to me. It happens when someone outside the mint take two pennies and puts them in a vice or something. The pressure would make the other pennies image go onto the other. I'm guessing that because of the way Lincoln is facing. I could be wrong though. But that is the best I can explain it. I would keep it though, it is an interesting coin. Do you collect other coins?

Phoenix

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Philly Dog

can also be from a glue job

rasputin41

I'm afraid you lost me on " the way Lincoln is facing " Phoenix21. The image on the right is the tail of the coin, the image on the left is the head. If you picked the image on the left up and turned it over and the back of it had nothing on it and was transparent what you would see is the image on the right without the portions that show that are on the tail of the coin on the photo.

I don't really collect coins other than look through change from time to time looking for silver coins, or wheat penny's.

rasputin41

I've had 4 or 5 people who are knowledgeable on coins and who collect coins look at it. They all said they thought it came from the mint that way but could not explain how the error was accomplished. They believed it had some value but didn't have any idea on a dollar amount. In fact most were not familiar with error coins.

peachymargarita

Hello rasputin41 and welcome to Coin Talk. Since the bust of Lincoln on the reverse is sunken in, it is more than likely a squeeze job. If it were raised, you would have something to ponder. Sorry, my opinion is post mint.

Michael

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rasputin41

Thanks for you opinion Michael. I'll take all the opinions I can get. I and others have been researching this for a couple of months now. Here are some things from sites that have to do with Brockage errors:

brockage refers to a type of error coin in which a side of the coin has both the normal image and a mirror image of the opposite side impressed on it. This is caused by an already minted coin sticking to a die and impressing onto another coin.

Much has been written about how Brockages happen. Suffice it to say that a Brockage will have the same picture and wording on both sides, but on one of those sides, everything is backwards. Also, everything is 'set in' to the coin surface, instead of raised).

So according to this the areas will be slightly hollowed. There is also a Brockage known as a Partial Brockage.

Thanks for your opinion.

Phoenix21

I'm talking about the image on the reverse. If you took one penny, and put it's face on the reverse on the back of this coin, and squeeze it with a load of pressure, then you will get this. I could be wrong thoug. That was only my opinion. Also the scratches on it look like it came from a vice. But looking at it, I'm not a 100% percent sure. You might have something, but I don't fully know. I'll leave it to the experts here, I'm not that sure. Very nice find though. It is very interesting.

Phoenix

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gxseries

If in doubt, you can always take it to a local coin dealer and ask for his opinion. But chances are, all will say it's post mint damage, as in, someone intentionally damaged it so that it looks like it is an error coin, hoping to fool people and sell it at a fat profit. Or alternatively, done it in mischief.

There is no way that such coin could have been made in the mint. Look carefully, you can see the Memorial House UNDER the reversed image of President Lincoln. It does look like it was flattened. How exactly can you explain that it was done in the mint? The coin that you have was struck on top of another coin?

But how? Assume the following. If the first coin was struck 100% perfect and somehow got stuck in between the dies, the second coin cannot be struck perfectly. Alternatively there are two coins got stuck and somehow the first coin got above of the second coin. But how can that happen when planchets are feeded one way - as in, there is only one direction the planchets can get through - that is to get struck and then out, come out as coins. There is no way the Mint has made such bizarre errors unless intentional but most common kind of this "error" coin that you have are squeeze job.

Overall value: 1 cent.

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peachymargarita

I would like to see a close pic of the photo on the right. Is this possible? There are some shelf like devices behind Mr Lincoln that may tell the tale. So before we go any further can we see some more pics?

Thanks,

Michael

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rasputin41

Heres a closeup of the tail. I've darkened it to bring out more detail. I believe the shelf like devices you refer to are the Lincoln Memorial.

Thanks,

John

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Captainkirk

If this was caused by a die, the lettering and portrait would not be reversed. If it was a clashed die, the devices would be raised, but dies don't clash and leave that much detail either. it is a squeezed coin. Also, if two coins were somehow involved at the mint, they both would not fit in the collar used to make the rim.

satootoko

In a true brockage the double images on one side should be properly aligned, because the "stuck" coin has to be perfectly aligned with the die it is stuck to.

On the other hand, unless a squeeze job is done with extreme care, there will be at least some mis-alignment.

The "wrong" image will be incuse on either a brockage or a squeeze job, because the main difference between them is whether the impression was formed at the mint, or at someone's work bench.

Looking at a cent with X-ray vision would show the bottom of the Memorial as a straight line at about eye level of the Lincoln bust, not skewed several degrees on what I am convinced is a squeezed coin.

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peachymargarita

This is the area that has me most concerned.




This looks more like glue than anything to me. Now since I am going off pictures alone please take this as an idea and not gospel. I would dip the coin in acetone. I know this is safe for other coins but not sure if it will be ok for cents. If anyone knows please say so.
If it is ok it will take the glue off and the mystery will be solved.

Outside of glue I am all out of ideas. Please remember in errors you should always assume you have nothing until you can prove otherwise. Once we exhaust all other possibilities we may come to the realization that you have something genuine! Won't that be cool?

Michael

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rasputin41

I'm attaching 2 photo's. The areas in black represent parts of the lettering that would be on the tail of the coin. At the top: ONE CENT. At the bottom: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. All of these areas are raised. The area in blue is the Lincoln Memorial. That area is also raised, especially the pillar sections, and the raising continues over into the neck area on LIncoln.

The other photo shows a part of the Lincoln Memorial that is over the date. It is also raised just as it would normally be on a penny.

Another thing the scans don't reveal is that theres no rim on the tail, although it looks as though there might be. What is shown is actually the edge of the coin.

So that by my way of thinking to get this effect the coin would have to be first squeezed, and then glued. This seems to be quite a bit of trouble to go to, and then use the coin for change. After all, it is only a penny.

Thanks to all who have thoughts on this. I much appreciate it.

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