Good business or scammer?

It takes all kinds..

Heard from someone that a certain buyer scans Ebay for Raw fairly expensive coins that he thinks he can jump grades and one that the seller offers 7+ day returns. Once he gets the coin in hand he takes it to a former grader he knows from a TPG and gets his take. If he agrees that it should/will get a higher grade that moves the coin to "possible hundreds or thousands" in value he keeps it. If not, he returns the coin to the seller. If the seller smells a rat it doesn't matter as the buyer has protection from Paypal and Ebay. In fact, I know it doesn't matter whether the seller offers returns or not as the buyer protection covers all auction sales. So, this guy has made a lot of money, I am told- at this.

My vote is scammer; however my contact said that with all the phony stuff on the auction sites it just plain made sense to get it in hand and examine or whatever and after all- most sellers state that no questions are asked on the return basically opening the door wide open for guys like this one.

I thought it would be interesting to see the views of others on this practice.

 

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I don't really see this as scamming. The buyer is taking a chance and I'm pretty sure the seller will want the buyer to pay return s/h. At the end all thats lost is time and besides there are people that do worse stuff than that.

 

I don't mind buying a coin on eBay, because I know if it is not as described, I can get my money back.

However, it seems really abusive if your going to buy coins that ARE as described, see if you can make money off of them, and if you can't force the seller to return them.

I would hate if anyone did that. That seems really abusive.

It costs money for gas to mail the coin, and the envelope/packaging.

 

Wrong. Time and money is lost. Most people's time is worth something.
The items are described correctly yet this ingrate "borrows" the item to try to peddle for a little more money and "returns" the item if he cannot make a quick buck.
Question - Who is this eBay seller.

icerain - some people rob banks and some people murder. Murder is worse, so would robbing a bank be ok, since "besides there are people that do worse stuff than that" ??

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I see no problem with trying to flip coins.
But using the Buyer Protection to in the manner described (if true) is an abuse of the system and unethical.

 

This would be a prime example of why sellers should execute the right to 7 days or less returns?

 

If the coin is as decribed and still gets returned seems like a good way to make many sellers Blocked bidders list. I have no problem with honest returns and as long as buyers pay the shipping and agree to cancel the sale no foul called.
As for possible upgrades and grading raw coins and using the system to force returns sounds like a poor business model to me.

 

I take into consideration that anytime you sell or buy anything on ebay you're taking a risk. I have had sellers try to scam money out of me and it took almost two months for me to get my money back. Luckily I have yet to have a buyer try to scam me.
And no I'm not saying that murdering or robbing banks is okay. I was referring to peoples actions on ebay.

 

As far as I know he doesn't sell on Ebay. I learned of this after I asked another dealer about him. I was curious after he came into my shop and asked for coin after coin from our cases. As he would take a coin for inspection he would be doing something with his smartphone and keep making all sorts of offers. It seemed that he was purposefully trying to confuse us. After about 3 episodes I asked about him. Seems that at least one other coin shop called the police and had a no trespass issued. Apparently he is well known in my area. The Ebay thing came about during that conversation.

 

I used to find 25-50 slabbed coins that I liked, and copy and paste the same message. Complete lowball offer. Something along the lines of " I really want this ***** but I can only afford *** at the moment. Could you accept my offer of ***? I promise I will pay full price in the future and A++ feedback is sure to follow. That was my newbie/rookie buying strategy. At least one or two of the sellers would be hard up for money and accept/counter offer. In looking back it was a terrible idea, and I feel ashamed about it. I started getting messages like " Hey aren't you that clown that offered me 120 on my AU Bust Half? By the way I sold that for 260." It was just a very poor way to handle business. I'm sure I was blocked by some sellers.


I would equate that to bad etiquette, but what is mentioned above I believe falls under scamming.

 

JCB1983..in regards to the return time

I recently held an auction for a Silver Plated Grand Dutchess tray (Its a monster tray weight wise). Due to the shipping weight of almost 20 pounds I listed as a no return item and set a price of $100 cheaper than market to move the item. A woman who stated that her husband bought it and she didn't want it demanded return with shipping after 2 weeks. I said no, but she contacted Paypal. I have over 4000 positive feedbacks and explained to paypal such and that it was a no return auction, but they told her to ship it back and took the funds out of my account. They said that it didn't matter what or how the auction was listed. So that was that.

 

My god. Sorry to hear that.

 

I would like to take one step back from this scenario. If it is a likely upgrade with a rather large increase in value, why didn't the original seller send it in for grading himself? We are taking thousands of dollars here for the one point difference in the grade, so this wasn't any $30 dollar coin to start with. Maybe more like a $500 or $800 coin. What is he (the original seller) doing spending all that money on something he doesn't know or recognize as potential? Sounds like a contradition in a way. Smart enough to have made money in his life time but all of a sudden he has a dumb streak? This whole situation probably never happened, especially over and over as originally stated. INHO.

 

He's buying items that are described accurately because he thinks the item may be undergraded. He "borrows" the item to look and see if it may grade higher through his insider grader. There is a considerable difference between this - wasting people's measurable time and money - and cherry-picking in person. If the item is described accurately, this guy returns the item. This is scamming. The guy should keep the item and resell it himself. After all the item is sold accurately exactly AS ADVERTISED.

 

A "scam" implies that someone is being cheated. Under the above scenario, I do not see where anyone is being "cheated".

As for the "insider grader"?

Oh puh-lease!

Grading is an opinion exactly the same as "accurately described".

 

If the seller offered return privileges, it's no scam at all to take advantage of them.

If the seller did not, and the buyer falsely claims "not as described" to force a return through Buyer Protection, it's a scam.

 

I think it is ok to occasionally cherry-pick online. However, using that "not as described" claim via Buyer Protection to force a return does not seem right. TC