Chinese Counterfeiter Producing High Quality Fakes

Ebay naru'd one of China's top counterfeiter's back in August of 2010.... however, since then, the "J" man (as we like to call him), has been upgrading his equipment... and is now pumping out some high quality fakes from his Big Tree Coin Factory. He uses various eBay handles, laying low, selling a few coins here and there. One thing I've noticed lately is the increased use of 90% silver planchets for his fakes... and the detail he's able to get from his laser cut dies. Take a look at this auction, scroll down to the high resolution photos, and tell me what you think. Oh... and the sorry excuse for a "copy" stamp won't be there on any of his coins.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-90-...91?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3cbbdcff27

 

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I think the guy's accurately describing what he's selling, and his replicas are incredibly well done, as one might expect them to be with laser engraving equipment and a modicum of experience using it.

Am I supposed to think something else??

Have to take your word for that one. Nothing in his "current" feedback seems to indicate that, but obviously you're more knowledgeable about this man and his products than I.

 

They'll never get their rims and edges correct, which is a dead giveaway. They don't make both sides at once like a regular minted coin, but make each side seperate and then make a milled edge which is pinched into place. Pretty crude.
Guy

 

This auction can be reported.

eBay policy for replicas is that the first title of the auction is listed as 'replica' or 'copy', which this auction is...
However, the item must be pictured, and the feature pic must show the 'copy' or 'replica' stamping on the coin, fully visible and clear.
This auction does not.

As a secondary concern, the stamp on the coin is not bold and/or clear...

I'll have to check, but eBay might even require both sides of the coin to be marked... I can't remember.

 

One of the reasons I posted this is there's been a number of threads lately on CT regarding fakes, especially Morgans. My point is that you can throw away most of the older methods of counterfeit detection (magnetic planchets, incorrect weight, casting bubble, lack of (or mushy) details... proven diagnostics that no longer apply.

 

I have seen his older auctions where he openly suggested that the coins could be 'customized' on request.
I have also seen auctions where down in the "questions asked" area of the page showed people asking for unmarked coins, and his replies were that it was available on request.

 

I honestly believe they lurk here and other coin forums to find out what they need to work on.
They listen to us critque, and fix it slowly but surely.

 

I hear you Guy... but these coins are struck correctly, using older (and somewhat crude) presses. The quality is considerably better that it was just a few years ago when Susan Headley ran her little experiment at the F.U.N. convention... over fifty percent of the dealers she showed this particular counterfeiter's coins to believe them genuine.

 

**** like this is why I hang out here. That's neat info, thanks.

Good point. Armor piercing round vs armor plating story.

Wow...that's interesting to know. Scary thought.

 

Jeez, at these prices I won't even be able to afford fakes.

BTW, none of the replica coins I've seen bought on eBay (even from a U.S. seller) have ever had the word "copy" or "replica" on them even though the eBay photos showed the wording stamped on the coin.

 

Wrong

mostly correct

Wrong. eBay will do nothing with this.

It is not required on both side and eBay will have no problem with this marking.

 

Then they have changed the rules since I have last read them.
I admit it has been at least 2 years since... maybe quite a bit longer.

 

That coin may have been struck, but that rim wasn't part of the striking. I think thats pretty evident in those pics.
Guy

 

Guy... can you be more specific? I'd like to know what you're seeing that gives this coin away. I don't collect Morgans, so nothing seems to jump out at me.

 

On the obverse, look at the rim at 5 and 8 o'clock and you can see the reeding extending almost to the top edge of the rim. Thats one example of that part of the coin not being struck in a collar. On the reverse look how the rim is rounded, not flat as it would be if struck with tens of thousands of pounds between two dies. All the counterfeit Morgans I have seen have had these same flaws. If they ever get the edges of their coins correct, or struck in collar, then we're in trouble.
Guy

 

Wow...some seriously enlightening stuff there. Thanks.

 

If you ever visit China Town San Francisco, pick up a couple of fakes. You can usually buy them for about $5 each. It's an education on the cheap.
Guy

 

So if somebody comes on here and posts that as a new Morgan they bought, you'd be the one to step up and point it out as an obvious fake? Sorry, but I don't believe that. It would pass as a real Morgan on this forum every day. It's a very good fake.

 

I purchased a few fakes on ebay from China as an experiment a while back. I had no communication with the seller. Not a single one had a copy stamp. They automatically assume that people buying them don't want the stamps so they don't do it. They just have to have them in their ebay pic to meet their TOS.

It should be noted that it's not illegal to counterfeit foreign coins in China so they can make all they want. It is against the law for them to ship them here without stamps but who's going to go to China and arrest them?

 

No, the piece posted would not. I'm no expert on Morgans, but I know enough to spot an obvious fake. If you don't buy that then fine. But I suggest you don't buy any Morgans on Ebay if you can't tell the difference between real and fake pieces.

BTW, the only 1879 CC with centered mm is the VAM 6. No other diagnostics fit. Took 5 minutes here: http://www.vamworld.com/1879-CC+VAMs to figure this out. All the info one would need is available if people chose to use it.
Guy