Stocks & bonds: What $72 million looks like

I've been wanting to get some threads started on stocks and bonds, a.k.a. scripophily, so let's kick things off with a bang. I collect all kinds of paper securities, as long as they have engraved vignettes. But one of my little niche collections is certificates that were once worth a million dollars or more. So far I've found six and I thought I'd share them.

The first one I came across was a $1 million bond for National Steel. It was purchased Sept. 9, 1977 and sold a week later. Printed by Security-Columbian Banknote Co., it has a nice eagle vignette that shows up on a lot of other stock certificates.

American Airlines issued a $2 million bond on Feb. 6, 1978. Not sure the sale date on this one, but it also was printed by S-C B Co., with a custom engraved aircraft vignette.

 

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On Dec. 31, 1991, DTM Business Trust bought just over 2 million shares of Sun Distributors, LP -- and sold them all the same day. The stock closed at 2 5/8 a share and fluctuated about 1/8 point that day, so the trade value was between $5 and 5.25 million. American Bank Note Co. created the nicely engraved woman gracing the certificate.

CDS & Co. bought just barely under a million shares of Westcoast Energy on Sept. 3, 1997, probably to keep it below a tax threshhold. The closing value of this certificate that day was $19.56 million. Westcoast was a Canadian company and Canadian Bank Note Co. engraved the certificate.

 

Chrysler Financial Corporation put out a lot of big bonds in the mid-'80s. This one was issued Feb. 9, 1982 for a little over $14 million. It boasts a wonderful vignette of two women flanking a Chrysler hood ornament, engraved by Security-Columbian.

And last, the big dog. This First Virginia Banks stock certificate, with a nice vignette of Thomas Jefferson also by S-C B, was for 776,325 shares. Closing value on Oct. 6, 1993: $30.85 million dollars! Unlike the others, this one wasn't sold for more than a year. I'll have to check on whether the seller made any profit.

I was surprised when the dealer who supplied many of these told me there was hardly any U.S. interest in high denomination stocks and bonds. He said most buyers are in Europe. Personally, I think it's pretty cool (and a little surreal) to hold a few pieces of paper that, for a short time anyway, were worth more than most people could hope to earn in a lifetime.

I'm not going to say right away what I paid for these. First I'd be interested in other opinions on what people think they are worth. A couple bucks? A thousand? What's your take?

 

Cool, try and get a certificate today and let me know what it will cost you! A byegone era.

 

I really enjoy the stock certificates as well, and have to hold myself back from starting a collection of them. I hadn't thought about your "large denomination" collection style, but just the artwork. In any event, really nice stuff! I have no idea on costs for these, but as long as you're asking I'll toss out $50-$200 for typical nice certificates?

In the late 80's-early 90's I used to get stock certificates from the company I worked for, they were very nice. Unfortunately I had to relinquish them as I took them in to my stock broker to put in my account. I wish I could have kept one, but it would have been very expensive

Dave

 

Stock certificates used to be required as proof of ownership, but since the advent of computer trading it made less and less sense, especially with many trades occurring the same week or day. In the '90s the NYSE abandoned the practice. Companies will still "certificate" your shares on demand but it will cost you a hefty fee, something like $50 per certificate.

 

seems that the $50 fee may be worth it. I mean who else, besides a collector, would spend the extra money.

 

There are already dealers out there who purchase 1 share of stock and then resell the "live" certificate for several times the cost. I can foresee a time when companies stop issuing certificates entirely -- which would make the modern certificates quite rare. But there has to be demand to support a collector's market. Unless someone is willing to spend money, even rarities won't have much value.

So what's your fair-price guesstimate on a million dollar bond?

 

Are you reserving this thread for US-issued stocks and bonds? Modern only? Or are we talking any certificates and bonds? I have a couple Imperial Russian ones from the 1860s and 1890s, far from modern... but the cool thing is that one of them still has the coupons attached to it, the original owner abruptly stopped cashing them in in 1917 (Russian Revolution breaks out, Soviets take power, and refuse to repay or honor anything belonging to the Czar).

 

I just thought I'd put out a feeler to gauge interest in the subject. I personally collect antique U.S. engraved certificates, but it's a HUGE field with many facets. I'd like to start a more general thread that would be ongoing and inclusive -- modern, antique, intaglio, litho, foreign, U.S., trains, mines, whatever collectors want to post.

 

Those are really cool! I wouldn't be able to not use them to fool friends and family into thinking I was filthy rich.

 

Except for the fact that you're not Cede & Co.

 

the vingrettes look really nice, this is somthing im going to have to start collecting

 

Too bad that they don't look like that aymore, at least none that I have seen do.

 

I went to the library today and looked up the Wall Street Journal for Nov. 21, 1994 -- the day those stock shares for First Virginia Banks were sold. Assuming they sold at the peak that day, that certificate would have gone for $25.7 million -- a loss of over $5 million! Ouch!

Not many guesses on the market value of the certificates themselves, so I'll share: Collectively, I spent a bit over $100 for all six certificates. That seemed reasonable to me, given how rarely you see such high denominations. I have no real idea about the scarcity of these although average certificates from any of these companies are very common and would probably only sell for a dollar or two each.

 

Okay Rhino89, I finally fired up my scanner and posted a new thread. I even included a Russian imperial bond of my own -- go ahead and post the ones you have and we'll compare!
http://www.cointalk.com/t163555/

 

gsalexan, I'll finally have free time to scan my bonds Thursday night, so I'll be posting real soon... and I have a bunch of unidentified stamps and seals on them as well, we'll see if anyone can offer any idea on the history behind them. They definitely exchanged many hands, I mean some of them have coupons that abruptly stop being cashed in at the same date, then my 1889 bond has a purple stamp on it with the date "Decret du 10 September 1919"... stay tuned

 

Imperial Russian Bonds

Finally got around to my bonds...

First, an 1869 125 Ruble bond to raise money, a loan for the Czar to build
the Nicholai Railroad. Still has coupons that weren't redeemed, looks like
they stopped being redeemed April 1919 or so. Logical, since by then the
Soviets came to power. Intricate watermark. And one of the stamps in the
bond is a "Eight Pence" stamp with no color, just a highly raised/depressed
texture to it, very cool.








Next, 1889 125 Ruble...



And 1891 125 Ruble...




Last one, 1894 125 Ruble... lots of coupos remaining, also stopped being redeemed around 1918/1919.

 

Anyone else have any other bonds? Would love to see this thread grow with some cool bonds, unique vignettes, anything you guys have... Anyone have any bonds from before the 1860s? Let's see the antique ones, too!

 

These are nice -- thanks for posting. I think like the 1869 bond best, with conversions to francs, pounds and florins. I do have a few pre-1860 stocks, mostly railroads, that I can post. Not sure about bonds, but I can look.

Anyone else want to add a few images?