Why did NGC bag the coin as AT?

I am starting to learn more and more about toned dollars. This has long been a grey area for me. I recently took this coin out of a Hannies Tulving slab which it was in for about 25 years and sent it to NGC for certification. There were several other coins with toning that came out of these slabs in the same NGC order. This was the only coin out of the lot that NGC slabbed at AT.

Is their something about this coin that screams AT? I'm very confident that this toning is natural but why the AT designation?

 

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I have no idea. Coin looks good to me. Resubmit!

 

At the risk of stepping in it big-time, I would propose that they labeled it "AT" because they're under pressure to reject the products of coin doctors, but there is no way to distinguish an "artificial" thin film from a mechanically and chemically identical "natural" one.

They're either going to reject naturally-toned coins as artificial, or accept artificially-toned coins as natural. Or both.

 

I just gave a friend 9 Ben Franklin half dollars that were toned because of this issue.I really don't like the way the coin looks like when this occurs...

 

There is a stripe of yellow at 10 o'clock that is suspect. There is also some glob effects about a quarter inch NE of the scratch at 4 O'Clock along with other areas that screams AT along with very smooth gradients almost to smooth.

That's all I got...

 

I agree with ronterry. Too smooth. Good point GDJMSP made also about the scuff marks. The colors just don't seem right to me. Almost too circus-clownish or something.

 

you know, Matt, there is also the possibility that the tone looks almost too good to be true? I dunno. I'm just throwing it out there.

 

Nothing jumps out at me as AT, my guess is this was more of a questionable toning call. Just a guess but maybe the flat luster played a role.

Do you have pictures of the other toned coins from the same invoice? It might help to spot something if we compare those coins to this one.

 

I agree, I don't know what they are thinking bagging that coin. The blue color at the upper periphery looks a little strange but it is a cyan color which is the correct progression and a color I have seen on Morgan Dollars before.

Over a decade ago, Bob Campbell released his video of how to spot AT coins. This coin does not show a single indicator of AT and does show an indicator that Campbell claims can only be caused by air transfer toning (NT). Campbell basically states that when you see different colors in the recesses of the devices of a coin like you do on this coin that it can only be caused by air transfer toning. Note how the letters of LIBERTY are yellow but the band is magenta. Along the same line, a big indicator of AT is that the colors creep over the devices and lettering. That does not happen anywhere on this coin. Wherever you see a sudden change in relief, you also see a change in color For example, look at the yellow that separates the magenta in the fields and the magenta on Liberty's face at the boundary of the devices. Another example is that the patina does not cover the denticles, which many toning enthusiasts consider a big indicator of AT.

The color schemes are typical of a bag toned Morgan, and all of the color progressions are correct. And unless my eyes are tricking me, I actually think I see some evidence of textile pattern on Liberty's neck.

I don't know what caused the toning breaks and as Doug pointed out, if the metal is scarred, that would explain the toning break. However, even if the metal is undisturbed, that doesn't preclude something sticking to the coin that could have caused the toning breaks. I am sorry, but I see absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that this coin is AT.

However, since I have not seen the coin in hand, I reserve the right to change my mind. I will say that if this coin really is AT, the doctor who created this has incredible skills.

 

That is amazing, I have never seen a full on image of one of those coins. Nice camera work! Question, why don't the dentacles tone?

 

I think Paul is right about the textile toning. It looks like there is a band of it from the area between the date and the 2nd star on the left northeast toward UNUM. Maybe it is the band of yellow that has them concerned. In any event, you might want to consider contacting Scott Schechter and ask if you can send it to him for review. If you do, be sure to mention the apparent textile toning that Paul mentioned.

Chris

 

Matt

I just got back a Seated dime labeled as AT.

It is as natural as I have seen, and I asked two 'coin doctors' about it who said that they wished they could do that good a job.

Anything toned will come back AT.

 

Submit it again? I submitted 4 coins once to NGC (through Jaceravone) and all 4 came back AT! Even the ones that were not wild (2/4). Out of the 4 I ended up selling 1 raw, but sent in the two non-crazy colors back again and they got graded.

edit: here they are, these were the two that were originally graded AT (for some reason) - but then later accepted.

 

That is totally untrue!! I just had 5 toned proof Roosevelts graded.....no AT's.

 

Anything toned *can* come back AT.

 

I see what looks like textile as well but even though I think the coin is NT I believe that NGC's position is that the coin isn't market acceptable. How could they conclude that you might ask? The coin is erily similar to a large batch of AT coins that hit the market in 2009 and quite a few made it through PCGS/NGC initially so I think NGC is limiting their risk exposure.

Examples of the AT coins:






















I am not saying that your coin is identical to these but that neon hot pink was a very tell tale sign on these AT'd versions and I am 99% sure that is what scared NGC off.

 

I gave up submitting toned coins to NGC. They are more apt to reject than accept if there's even the slightest doubt.

For this coin, I definately feel the toning natually occured.

 

I agree.....