AnemicOak

I'm considering attempting a type set. There are so many old coins I like (Buffalo's, Large Cents, Bust Dimes, & pretty much everything else) so I think this will be a good way for me to collect & not have to get the "key" dates like I'd need for a complete set of one series.

So I guess I'm trying to decide how I want to do this & was wondering how some others approach it.

I'm thinking about sticking with TPG coins for everything, but am unsure as it could add quite a bit to the cost of the set. If I do go graded for everything I'm unsure if I want to stick with one company or not worry about it as long as it's PCGS, NGC, ICG or ANACS. Also are ICG & ANACS considered as good or are they kind of second tier to the other two? One of the reasons for leaning towards TPG coins is the whole is it cleaned, re-finished, etc. I'm not real confident on being able to tell since I ended up with a couple of cleaned Buffalo's & all I hear is how hard it can be, even for experienced dealers, to tell.

The other thing I'm not sure of is grade. I'd love to do an all XF/AU or better set, but when it gets to some of the older/rarer coins I'm not sure that'll be real doable.


I guess I'm just wondering how others have approached doing a type set. Any pitfalls or things you've learned when doing your set that might help a newbie.


Thanks in advance,
Brian

ertw

AnemicOak;

Because I imagine you can put together a very nice type set with more common dates or mintmarks, why not consider trying to put together a set with raw coins that way you can use the experience of assembling the set to improve your grading skills??

I mean, sooner or later you'll have to learn to grade on your own (this will benefit you in the long run in this hobby I believe). This type of a collecting approach IMO has the potential to improve a collector's grading skills of a certain series and develop a keener eye for grades up in the high AU to lower MS; plus you don't break the bank on most types in EF to AU (at least in the Canadian series I collect). Of course, if you find yourself in the situation where you have some extra money and you want to buy a pricey coin then make sure your comfortable with the purchase (if that means buying the plastic around the coin and the professional guarantee, then that's what you should do) but also be comfortable with the price being asked for it and make your own judgements of the grade.

I'm not puttig down TPG's, lots of people demand there services and I think they provide a necessary service for some transactions (authenticating of coins, buying from online dealers etc...). IMO don't pay the premium just for someone's opinion on the grade,...they aren't infallible. I mean you see 2 coins: 1 raw and 1 graded ...why pay 10, 15, 20 dollars more for the graded one if you know they grade the same?...put the $ toward another coin.

I collect Canadian $0.50, 1911-1967 almost all raw except 3 or 4 pieces that I purchased because I thought they were fair prices for the grade. I'm new to collecting (2 1/2 yrs.) and am only speculating as to what is available on the US coin market at what I personally consider "reasonable money" for just as beautiful raw coins as slabbed. Maybe some coins are not market acceptable raw and the only ones you can find are slabbed...I have no clue.

Further, any doubt as to whether a coin has been cleaned or not, just pass on it...that's the nice part of a type set..they'll be plenty of other examples that will come along to choose from; or if you have the ability to post a pic up here on the site before you have to pay then do so. Seems like a very, very knowledgeable US coin bunch here who seem very happy to always help out.

I say read what's out there on grading, learn what's unique about grading each series your interested in, and go with nice unslabbed coins. Ultimately up to you though...but whatever you do BTCNTH...been said countless times.

__________________
Cheers,

Rob

AnemicOak

Thanks for the comments Rob. You've given me some good things to think on.

I am working on my grading. I've got the ANA standards book & Photograde and try to reply when anyone posts a guess the grade type thread.

Some of the TPG stuff seems way inflated price wise (at least the better grades). Is this mainly due to folks doing registry sets?


~Brian

AnemicOak

I'm not interested in doing this as a registry set, but is this a good list to base what a "complete" type set would contain?
http://www.pcgs.com/new_set_registry...site&setid=163

Is there a list somewhere else that's better?


I do think I'll go with raw coins for the most part, the exception being a "deal" on a slabbed coin or maybe on some of the more expensive stuff when I get to it.

Leadfoot

I believe you should think long and hard about your type set goals from the beginning, and well before you purchase any coins for it. Most of the mistake coins in my type set were made before I knew enough to make the right decision on a coin.

Raw coins is a good idea. I would suggest putting together a Dansco 7070 type set -- it would be an impressive accomplishment, and can be done in many different grade and price levels.

However, raw coins have a downside -- as you're not an expert in them your likelihood of getting a counterfeit and/or problem coin will be increased.

So until you feel comfortable in your abilities to spot problem coins, I would suggest you stick to purchasing slabbed coins (particularly for the older coins) and cracking them out. If you choose to do a Dansco, you can keep the labels in the back of the Dansco for provenance.

All my humble opinion...Mike

p.s. ONLY PURCHASE COINS THAT YOU HAVE A RETURN PRIVILEGE ON.

Leadfoot

Here's the coins in the Dansco (including the optional gold page):

Half Cent Draped Bust 1800-08
Half Cent Classic Head 1809-35
Half Cent Coronet 1849-57
Large Cents Draped Bust 1796-1807
Large Cents Classic Head 1808-14
Large Cents Coronet 1816-39
Large Cents Coronet (Braided Hair) 1840-57
Small Cents Flying Eagle 1857-58
Small Cents Indian Head (Laurel Wreath) 1859
Small Cents Indian Head (Cu/Ni Oak Wreath) 1860-64
Small Cents Indian Head (Bronze Oak Wreath) 1864-1909
Small Cents Lincoln 1909 VDB 1909
Small Cents Lincoln (Bronze Wheat) 1909-58
Small Cents Lincoln (Steel) 1943
Small Cents Lincoln (Memorial) 1959-Date
Two Cents Two Cents (Bronze) 1864-72
Three Cents Three Cents (Silver) 1851-73
Three Cents Three Cents (Nickel) 1865-89

Half Dimes Capped Bust 1829-37
Half Dimes Liberty Seated 1837-59
Half Dimes Liberty Seated (Arrows) 1853-55
Half Dimes Liberty Seated (Legend) 1860-73
Nickels Shield (Rays) 1866-67
Nickels Shield (No Rays) 1867-83
Nickels Liberty Head (No Cents) 1883
Nickels Liberty Head (Cents) 1883-1912
Nickels Buffalo (Variety I) 1913
Nickels Buffalo (Variety 2) 1913-38
Nickels Jefferson 1938-Date
Nickels Jefferson (35% Silver) 1942-45
Dimes Capped Bust (Variety 2) 1828-37
Dimes Liberty Seated (Stars) 1838-60
Dimes Liberty Seated (Arrows) 1853-55
Dimes Liberty Seated (Legend) 1860-91
Dimes Liberty Head 1892-1916
Dimes Mercury 1916-45
Dimes Roosevelt (Silver) 1946-64
Dimes Roosevelt (Clad) 1965-Date

Twenty Cents Liberty Seated 1875-78
Quarters Capped Bust 1831-38
Quarters Liberty Seated (No Motto) 1838-65
Quarters Liberty Seated (Arrows) 1853-55
Quarters Liberty Seated (Motto) 1866-91
Quarters Liberty Head 1892-1916
Quarters Liberty Standing (Variety 1) 1916-17
Quarters Liberty Standing (Variety 2) 1917-30
Quarters Washington (Silver) 1932-64
Quarters Washington (Clad) 1965-Date
Half Dollars Capped Bust (Lettered Edge) 1807-36
Half Dollars Capped Bust (Reeded Edge) 1836-39
Half Dollars Liberty Seated (No Motto) 1839-65
Half Dollars Liberty Seated (Arrows) 1853-55
Half Dollars Liberty Seated (Motto) 1866-91
Half Dollars Liberty Head 1892-1915

Half Dollars Liberty Walking 1916-47
Half Dollars Franklin 1948-63
Half Dollars Kennedy (Silver) 1964
Half Dollars Kennedy (Clad) 1965-Date
Comm. Halfs Commemerative Half Dollars
Comm. Halfs Commemerative Half Dollars
Comm. Halfs Commemerative Half Dollars
Comm. Halfs Commemerative Half Dollars
Silver Dollars Liberty Seated (No Motto) 1840-65
Silver Dollars Liberty Seated (Motto) 1866-73
Silver Dollars Trade 1873-83
Silver Dollars Morgan 1878-1921
Silver Dollars Peace 1921-35
Silver Dollars Eisenhower 1971-78

Bicentennial Bicentennial Quarter 1976
Bicentennial Bicentennial Half Dollar 1976
Bicentennial Bicentennial Dollar 1976
Modern Coins Susan B. Anthony 1979-99
Modern Coins Sacagawea Dollar 2000-Date
Modern Coins 50 State Comm. Quarter 1999-2008
Modern Coins Commemorative 1983-Date
Modern Coins Silver American Eagle 1986-Date

Gold Dollars Liberty Head (Type 1) 1849-54
Gold Dollars Indian Head (Type 3) 1856-89
Quarter Eagle Liberty Head 1840-1907
Quarter Eagle Indian Head 1908-29
Half Eagle Liberty Head 1839-1908
Half Eagle Indian Head 1908-29
Eagle Liberty Head 1838-1907
Eagle Indian Head 1907-33
Double Eagle Liberty Head 1850-1907
Double Eagle Saint-Gaudens 1907-32

AnemicOak

Yep, that's why I'm asking for feedback etc. now before I've bought anything. I want to work out a loose strategy before buying anything.


Yeah, guess I'll just have to bug you guys with questions before buying on some of them.


Sounds like good solid advice.



I don't think I'll go the album route. I keep reading how coins can be damaged just putting thm in an album. I do appreciate the Dansco list though as it might be a good route to follow.



BTW I was poking around the net and came across this coin. It looks pretty nice to me & to my limited knowledge the price seems decent. Anyone think it's been cleaned? They mention on some of there stuff if it's been cleaned, but I don't know if they always do. If it has been cleaned, what's the give away? It sounds like the dealer is pretty well respected.
http://www.harlanjberk.com/unitedsta...=us&linenum=26



Thanks,
Brian

samjimmy

It's hard to tell from the picture. The coin may be a bit darker than how it looks. I have one with nearly the same wear (a bit more detail than that one) and paid close to that. It looks darker overall, even darker than pictures I have of it. If you'd like to see I can post.

Also, regarding the Dansco and pcgs lists... the Dansco is nice because it limits the coins (but IMHO there are some listed that shouldn't be there and some missing that should). Getting the album solves the problem of displaying and organizing (it is a nice album). The pcgs list includes everything, but there's a few that would cost you a few clams such as... #6 Chain Cent (1793) & #7 Wreath Cent (1793). Unless you are prepared to pay for it, your type set won't have a chain cent.

shatsi

I was thinking of buying that very coin and posted pictures here. Try this link.
http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=13228

smullen

I too would like to build a type coin set and I've been thinking about purchasing the Dansco 7070...

I'm not big on Albums like the Dansco one we mentioned above as I've heard a lot of people say they promote the coin's reverse turning darker faster than the Obverse, but I think it makes a great display and it serves are a great template or guide as to what coins you still need or what to look for next...

Just Carl

My suggestion is to just go with raw coins for now unless your weathy and don't care about money. If your a nomal person just start with the raw, common type coins until you see if your going to stick with making a type set. Also, there are other types of type sets out there. I've got a 20th Century Type set I've put together. Started with out of pocket types and slowly improved the grade of each coin over the years. If you run out and purchase all slabbed coins and loosed interest, you'll be out a lot of money for several years. No one will buy them for what you just paid for them. If you go for older than 20th Century coins, you could still get quite a few at coin shows, flea markets, etc. for a decent price. Again, if you stick to it you can always upgrade later and this way very little investment. You've got to remember that if you ask a Ferarri owner what type of car you should buy he will most likely say a Ferrari. Ask a Chevy owner what to buy and guess what? Same is true of coins.

AnemicOak

Thanks everyone for your comments so far.

I've been doing some reading today about spotting cleaned coins. Of course some are obvious even to a newbie like me, but one write up I was reading estimated about 90% of all older silver coinage (Morgans, Busts, etc.) had been cleaned in some way over the years. True?


~Brian

satootoko

Harlan J. Berk is a very reputable dealer - some of my nicest Japanese coins came from him, including a gold yen. Chances are that any coin as old as the one you're looking at has been cleaned at some time in it's long life, but HJB normally lists any "problems" with his coins, so the probability is that it has never been harshly cleaned, and hasn't even been gently cleaned recently.

__________________
Roy

Cloudsweeper99

I just bought a coin from Harlan Berk. It's the first time I used them, but the service was very fast and problem free. I'll probably use them again.

In my unprofessional opinion, one of the nice benefits about putting together a type set is that it is a low cost way of owning one of everything and avoiding the expense of key date coins, etc. So buying slabbed coins is sort of running counter to one of the major benefits of doing a type set in the first place - cost. I don't think of type sets as something someone would put together with the idea that it would have a high value. It's for the love of the coins.

AnemicOak

I hear what you're saying & I think I agree with it. I guess I'm just a little gun shy about getting nailed with some cleaned stuff, because I just got a couple Buffalo's that were apparently cleaned. At the same time I suppose the only way to learn is to screw up a few times. I don't plan on buying any real expensive stuff anytime soon, but can't find any real good instruction anywhere on avoiding cleaned stuff. Every time I read something someone will mention it's cleaned, but don't seem to indicate why/how they're able to tell, what they see that gives it away.

I guess you could say I'm becoming obsessed with not getting cleaned coins.


BTW I was browsing (not buying) eBay earlier. Are any of these cleaned, darkened, altered?
1) http://cgi.ebay.com/1835-Capped-Bust...QQcmdZViewItem
2) http://cgi.ebay.com/1877-S-Trade-Dol...QQcmdZViewItem
3) http://cgi.ebay.com/1876-S-Trade-Dol...QQcmdZViewItem
4) http://cgi.ebay.com/1893-CC-Morgan-S...QQcmdZViewItem
5) http://cgi.ebay.com/1857-FE-Cent-XF-...QQcmdZViewItem
6) http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Braided-Hair-L...QQcmdZViewItem
7) http://cgi.ebay.com/1883-Seated-Libe...QQcmdZViewItem
8)http://cgi.ebay.com/1836-Capped-Bust...QQcmdZViewItem

Not meaning to pick on that one seller or anything.


~Brian