Fake 2010 Silver Pandas and eBay Indifference

Here is a photo of a counterfeit 2010 1 oz. silver Panda next to a real one. The genuine coin is on the right.



Notice (1) how high up the Yuan symbol on the counterfeit is, (2) the textures in the fur and (3) the uneven spacing between the letters of the counterfeit.

I've started a web page, http://www.pandacollector.com/rogue.html, to help collectors identify counterfeit Panda coins. It shows photos of fakes next to genuine coins like the one above. This information is particularly timely because there is one eBay member who has sold more than 300 counterfeit coins and silver bars in the last couple of weeks. eBay has failed to take action against this fraud despite emails and calls from numerous collectors and dealers.

Panda fakes are not hard to spot when you know what to look for—they tend to be not very well made.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

 

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thanks i was planning on getting one very soon, so this is very helpful!

 

Peter, is it still true that the newer fakes have the vertical |||||| reeding on the edges, while the genuines have the slanted \\\\\\\ reeding?

 

One more reason, unfortunately, to buy NOTHING Chinese. Just my opinion.

 

Well, the genuine coins have the diagonal reeding pattern but I haven't gotten my hands on a fake yet to see if there's a difference. A beneficent dealer is lending me a group of counterfeits this week to photograph so maybe one will be in there. I hate paying for fakes but I might have to if I can't get a donation or loan of the 2010 impostor.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

I respectfully beg to differ for several reasons. One is that Chinese coins, including Pandas, are among the most interesting and enjoyable coins in the world to collect. I think that shunning them isn't a good solution. Two is that, so far, the Panda fakes have so many quality control issues that it's hard to make a mistake and buy one once you know what to look for. That's why I started my Panda counterfeit web page to inform buyers. Three, the low-lifes who are counterfeiting Pandas are also counterfeiting American coins and, frankly, I think they are further advanced in their American deceptions. So why give up on China's coins?

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

The Chinese are faking other silver coins and bars besides Pandas and they seem to be getting better at it. I think that there were a lot of silver 2008 Commemorative bars that were sold on ebay during the 2008 Beijing Summer Olympic games. They are also faking silver Morgan dollars as well as some other U.S. silver coins based on what I heard online. I used to collect gold and silver Pandas but I gave up on them and sold them because of the issues of fakes and I was not as familiar about spotting fake Pandas. I sold the Pandas and used the proceeds to buy '70's silver art bars because I love collecting '70's silver art bars and I am much more familiar with '70's silver art bars than I am with Chinese Pandas.

 

The Chinese have a bad reputation of faking silver coins and silver bars and that is why people are avoiding buying coins from them and I do not blame them for that. I agree with you on them faking the American coins. I think that silver Morgans are a very good example of the Chinese being able to fake a silver Morgan and to "age" it to make it look like the real thing. The scary part about that is that they are getting very good at faking some American coins and that just ruins the coin collecting hobby IMO. The fact that ebay is not doing enough to get rid of the Chinese ebay sellers that sell fake coins makes more people avoid buying from any Chinese seller on ebay and elsewhere.

 

Also a fake Chinese Panda will be way off on the weight as well as the dimensions (diameter and thickness) of the coin. More than likely, they will be very underweight (ex: weighs 28 grams instead of 31.1 grams for a 1-oz silver Panda coin) and they might be either too thick or maybe too big. I could be wrong on this and feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

I think you are generally correct. If the coin's weight is off than that fact alone is sufficient proof it is a counterfeit. It does seem, though, that some coins and bars are now being fabricated using alloys that are closer to the weight of sliver or gold than copper is. Just this morning a member of the Chinese Coin Forum posted a fascinating photo of what happened when he applied acid to a so-called silver bar (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=800.0) that weighed the right amount.

It seems to me that we have entered an age where coin collectors, regardless of what country's coinage they collect, will have to be more alert to clues that items offered for sale may be fakes. Either that or restrict themselves to buying from dealers who guarantee their inventory is authentic. One of the many reasons I'm comfortable collecting Pandas is because the fakes are pretty easy to spot. Some are so bad it's just laughable — like putting the wrong year's design motif on a coin.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

I think that it is important to know what I own. When I had bought some gold and silver pandas, I really did not know what I owned and I did not do enough research on them at that time to really know what I was looking for in terms of if a Panda was fake or not. When I sold them to a local dealer, the local dealer tested them and they turned out to be real Pandas and I did not have any problems selling them.

 

I would be extremely careful with this idealogy. Just because the fakers have not YET made quality fakes of pandas does not mean they they WON'T. I remember the ancient chinese fakes made in the 1980's and how laughable they were. Everyone then said the same thing, "yeah they conterfeit them, but the fakes are horrible so you don't have to worry". The same was said of Chinese counterfeits made in the 1990's and early 2000's of American and Mexican coins. No one is laughing now.

I would say that knowing fakes are being made of Panda's would have me very concerned. Its the same pattern over and over, bad fakes first, then when that market dissipates, the high quality ones come along.

Just my historical perspective. I still collect ancient chinese, and yes there are excellent fakes out there. You just have to step up the knowledge and education to be able to collect them.

 

Agreed, I expect this to evolve at some point but it hasn't happened so far. And yes, knowledge is the best defense.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

Here's 2 more that I think are definitely fakes.On ebay now item#250665009151
set of 2 2006 silver 1oz pandas

 

Here is a general rule — no face value, no good.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

Negative feedbacks for colorful8876 may have triggered an identity shuffle among eBay counterfeit sellers. There are a couple of new sellers of the exact same junk: soul.hk and updang1. SHUN THESE SELLERS-the photos they display are of fakes. It is quite possible that these sellers are all part of the same operation and that the bad feedbacks have caused them to switch names. It is also possible that this variety of fake Pandas has become widely distributed and copycat sellers are jumping in grab part of the gravy for themselves. The best strategy for buyers is to know what real Pandas look like and to know the characteristics of fake ones. This is not very hard as comparison photos can be found online. The one thing to not do is to rely on eBay to protect you. There is plenty of evidence that this type of fraud is a low priority for them.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com/rogue.html

 

Thanks for the heads up. I am sure there will be more. If anyone likes to collect ancient chinese, I use:

http://chinesecoins.lyq.dk/eBaydealers.html

As a "very" short list of sellers of authentic coins versus the mass of scammers. I can vouch for the real list, as I have bought from all of them, and even had the admin add a couple of them to it.

Chris

 

The Latest

The eBay sellers colorful8876 and updang1 (possibly the same person or organization) are now selling 1/10 and 1/20 oz. 2010 gold Pandas. These same sellers have sold hundreds of presumably counterfeit silver Pandas to unwary eBay customers over the last month. (I say presumably because the photos were of fake coins, but I am still waiting for a shipment to arrive so that I can inspect the actual coins). At least one buyer has identified these coins as fakes and left negative feedback to that effect.

Over $3,000 of "gold" coins have been sold by these sellers in less than 24 hours. If the coins are fake they will be composed of copper or a base metal alloy that is plated with a thin layer of gold. Their intrinsic value will be just pennies

Unlike the silver Pandas, the coin photos of these new items appear to be of genuine coins. The photos are linked to a Chinese social networking website, so these could be photos posted by innocent collectors in China. I strongly advise eBayers to consider this information before buying from colorful8876 and updang1.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

 

I think that the leaves in the background are thicker and have a differnt directions, Just my opinion

 

Hi all. I was searching online for information on a coin I recently received and came across this forum.
I was naive and inexperienced and bid on an Ebay silver panda that seemed to be a good deal. Ebay has since taken down the listing but here is the link for reference:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=260652485992

The auction listing title was called: "AAA2000 Chinese China Silver Panda Coin 10 Yuan" and the Ebay seller id was k_touch. The last time I looked at the seller ongoing listing, they had sold over 100+ of these coins. Again I purchased only one. On the package I received, it was incased in an approximately 7"x7"x3" block of styrofoam and the postage cost the seller 26 yuans or roughly US$4.

Since the listing was taken down, I searched online and came across these listings on another site with the same picture I saw in the Ebay listing:
http://www.ioffer.com/i/2000-Chinese-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-Yuan--126574011
http://www.ioffer.com/i/2000-Chinese-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-Yuan--149719409

Here are the pictures in case the links don't work:


To my untrained eye at the time they seemed legit coins. Actually, now I still believe the auction listing pictures are of real coins compared to the image samples at http://www.apmex.com/Product/10180/2000_Silver_Chinese_Pandas_1_oz___Sealed.aspx

The following pictures are of the Panda coin I received for the Ebay auction listing; because of the 5 attachment limit, go to http://bit.ly/aSsfHb to see a picture of the digital scale (Jennings JSV-Dually) I use to weigh a 2010 penny as a control measure. Notice on the reverse side of the coin, there seems to be a spot or smudge near the left side of the date. The smudge was there before I cracked open the double seal of the coin packaging. Not sure what this means as I have not opened up any other panda coins yet but I assume the coin should be immaculate. I measured the coin with my steel ruler and it appears to be approx. 40mm in diameter and 3.4mm in thickness as you would expect. However, the coin weighs 30.9g which is very close to the 31.1g we expect from 1 troy oz. The discrepancy could be explained by scale or minting margin of error. If we suppose this is a counterfeit coin, one must be worried how close they are getting the weight and size right on these pandas. Now if they can get the panda ears texture and number of posts on the bottom ring correct, it could be troublesome for all Panda collectors new and experienced alike.