Questions about investing...

If gold goes down, do the value of gold coins go down?

If gold goes up, do the value of gold coins go up?

If silver goes down, do the value of silver coins go down?

If silver goes up, do the value of silver coins go up?

(These are all assuming the value of the coin is greater than the melt-value.)

 

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Its a weird relationship from what I have seen. Bullion prices should only relate to coins priced on melt value. It does directly increase and decrease bullion coins. However, since many coin dealers have large quantities of gold and silver, they tend to use this money to buy stronger prices on collectible coins. Therefor, higher bullion prices tend to move collectible coins up strongly as well. In a down market, the bullion drops quickly, but collectible coins tend to take a long time to drop.

That is my observations from 30 years collecting.

 

That was a little over my head, but tell me if this is correct. This is what I got from that.

Buillion goes up fast and goes down fast based on gold/silver prices.

Collectable coins go up fast and down slow based on gold/silver prices.


I realize im asking you to put your 30 years experience into a sentence or 2 which is unrealistic, but any information helps.

 

I will give an example. Coca-Cola silver art bars are collectible 1-oz .999 pure silver art bars that were minted in the 1970's that will fetch very high premiums on ebay. With spot silver at around $18.50, there are certain rare Coca-Cola silver art bars that sell on ebay for about between $70 to $100 (or more) on ebay. If spot silver drops to $8/oz (like it did in 2008), then those same silver art bars will probably still sell for between $70 to $100 (or more) on ebay.

The above example was probably a poor example, but certain 1970's silver art bars are treated as numismatics because certain rare ones (such as the Coca-Cola silver bars) will not go down as fast (or not at all) as the spot silver price even though they are .999 1-oz silver bars they. When you are dealing with old silver art bars you are dealing with "rarity values" and that might play a bigger role in the overall premium than the spot price of silver.

Regular brand name silver bullion bars such as Engelhard or JM will move with the spot price of silver and will be much more sensitive to spot silver price movements than rare silver art bars.

In other words, there are more factors in play (such as rarity values, collector demand, etc.) when you deal with price movement for collectible coins and bars. With regular bullion, you are just dealing with the metal value only and that is tied to the spot silver price.

 

So it sounds like coin currency is a better investment than bullion. Right?:hammer:

 

Correct because coins can be melted into bullion, but bullion can't be made back into a coin (technically it can, but will it happen, most likely not).

 

I've come to grudgingly agree with Doug that coins are a very poor investment
any coin is only worth what you're willing to pay and what it sells for when you move it on!

 

Numismatic value is by definition any perceived value that a coin has beyond its face or melt value. Numismatic value is a very very strange thing made up of many different elements. Supply and Demand are probably the biggest, how desired it is, than how well designed it is and than followed by what it is made of... Ultimately it always goes back to the golden rule in my book that each coin is only worth what you are willing to spend to get it and what someone actually buys it from you for
so it is a catch 22 (what do you really know until it is sold and than of course it is to late!)

 

Sorry to correct you, but I am a bit of a math guys. According to that, the house advantage of coins is 0% which is better than 1.5% of craps. So coin investing is better (Unless you are taking cost to sell into account.)

 

Coin collecting is a hobby!

If the average collector considers it anything else, he/she will be in for a rude awakening if they are ever forced to sell everything.

Chris

 

Craps at 1.5% house advantage.

49.25% win
50.75% lose

Coins at 50/50

50% win
50% lose

 

i agree with the math. House advantage in gambling terms is the percentage the casino has higher than your percentage to win the game. Which as stated before would mean you have less than 50% chance to win if there is any house advantage. I believe black jack if you know everything about the game the house has a 5% advantage meaning you have about a 45% chance of winning while the dealer has a 55% chance. There fore a 50% chance would be better than any gambling because there is always a house advantage

 

math guy - 1
guy with longest initials in the world - 0

:hail:

:goofer:

 

Point of clarification
Craps has the best "pay-out" odds of any game in the casinos. No question! What the pay-out percentages don't reveal is that much of the money won at the table goes right back to the house, and this is not figured into the pay-out percentage. For example, suppose a player starts with $1,000, and everything the player wins is placed in their pocket until he/she has expended all of the $1,000. Based on the published pay-out odds, the player would have (in a perfect world) $989.50 in their pocket. Suppose the player continues. Now the return on the bankroll is based on $989.50 and would be $974.66 (rounded) once the player has expended all of the $989.50. If the player stays at the table long enough, he/she will eventually lose everything.

However, there is another non-publicized bet on the craps table called the "odds bet" which can reduce the house "take" to as little as .0015%. No, I haven't misplaced the decimal point. It can be as little as fifteen ten-thousandths of 1%. The odds bet can vary from casino to casino. It can be as little as 5x to as much as 100x the "come line" wager. You have to ask the croupier at each casino for the odds bet limit. Suppose that a player started with $1,000, and he/she was playing at a casino that allowed 100x odds bets. In effect, the house's "take" would be reduced to $1.50 of the $1,000.

Veteran players usually know what the odds bet limit is at most of the casinos, so you don't often hear them asking for the information. Whenever they are at a table where the player controlling the dice is on a real hot streak, they will instinctively play the maximum limit allowed for the odds bet. When it is only costing the player $1.50 for every $1,000 played, it is very likely that there will be a few hot streaks during the entire course of their play, and this is how you can win at craps.

Chris

 

If you have that much time to make some smart remarks about people sucking maths, take your maths and do some statistics on ebay. Thanks.

 

math says never sell on ebay. any other questions?

 

This is why I can't be a math teacher.