Poland - Graded 1896 Morgan Dollar

ice: eagle on the back like pterodactyl ->

 

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PCG question/Conder 101???

Hello, Conder101

Long time no "talk". :hail:

RI AL here from the NGC board a while bck. Hope you've been well!!!

As you are the world expert on slabs, what can you tell me, please, about PCG? I just won a French Mozart coin 1/4 Euro 2006 unlisted in SCWC though there are other Mozart coins in the 1 1/2 Euro and I believe 20 Euros (it's huge and beautiful!!) Anyway, the coin is in a PCG slab marked Proof 70. Don't really care about the slab, but I can't seem to find any info on PCG. It will probably get cracked out but it's my first encounter with PCG so I'm curious. Is it European and what is their "credibility"?

I've been spending a lot of time on World of Coins.com since I have reached the point where I can go no further on my U.S. type set .(Remember the 1795 dollar fiasco, certified by ____ and later found to be fake by PCGS?)

Anyway, wanted to say hello and hope all is well and the "great group of guys" over at NGC are also well. Oh, I'm not RI Al anymore. Now it's MA AL. Escaped Rhode Island about 8 months ago. Love MA.

Alan

 

why would you want to leave the wonderful state of rhode island alan? lol welcome to the forum

 

Hey, Al! How have you been? Weren't you talking about moving to Florida at one point?

Chris

 

Is that some sort of pun hahah :yes:

 

Hello Ice.

Wish I could get a better look at the Morgan dollar too. The neck on the eagle on real pieces is not particularly graceful...kind of looks like the poor bird on the real dollars is having a muscle spasm...a painful one...but my eyes aren't as sharp as Condor's. If he says the 1896 in question is a fake...I believe him. WAIT! Do I see that the coin is in medal alignment and not "coin alignment"? Yup...this is a fake!!!!!!!!!! The reverse should be "upside down" when you flip the slab over sideways.

Too bad it's not possible to weigh the coin (without slab). It would be interesting to know how "light" it is.

Alan MA AL

 

QUOTE=Conder101;912209]The coin is clearly a fake, and that is definitely a slab I have not seen before. If they have another one and the price is reasonable I would definitely be interested in one.

Hi, Conder 101.

Just curious. Were you able to locate a PCG slab? I ask because we have a good friend in Warsaw that occasionally does a bit of coin hunting for me. She comes stateside a couple of times a year to see her doctors and stuff. If you'd like, I could ask her to keep her eyes peeled for a less expensive PCG slab and bring it with her when she comes for her next visit. Is there a particular variety of the slab you are looking for or at this early date in the company's history...are they all the same type?


My Mozart coin that started the thread (on World of Coins BB I believe):foot-mouth: is PCG Proof 70...which immediately makes me suspicious. Can ANYTHING be PERFECT??? I've always had trouble with the MS 70 or Proof 70 grades. If you look long enough...won't SOMETHING pop out at you saying, "see...I'm NOT perfect"?? :dead-horse:


Hey...the "more" little smilies are very clever!!!

Alan MA AL

 

There are legitimate Morgan varieties with improperly oriented reverses (ostensibly on account of a loose die that was able to rotate) - the 1891-O comes to mind in this regard, recorded deviations being in the 45 to 120 degree range. But this one is pretty close to medal alignment, and interestingly, I have Polish commemorative silver coinage that was struck in medal alignment, which suggests that this might be of Polish fabrication as well as grading. It'd be interesting to break it out of its holder to see what the reeding looks like and if there's a detectable edge seam....

 

Loved this topic when I first saw it years ago. Poland has too many TPG's and none of them represent PCGS or NGC quality. When it comes to PCG, my experience tells me they are the bottom of the barrel. They frequently grade cleaned worn coins in MS, some fakes and have recently expanded into India, with representatives in China and Thailand. That about sums it up for me, as far as their standards, grading intentions and future grading improvements.

Poland...
http://www.pcggrading.pl/

India, etc...
http://www.pcggrading.in/

 

DGG
Fresh out of the oven, advertising their indestructible slabs (coin in blister pack) on YouTube...



Here are a couple of examples of their grading...

... a mysterious VF-45 (where do I find this grade on the scale?)



... a cleaned MS-64



http://www.dgggrading.com.pl/

PCG - An ongoing joke, they just announced expansion into India and representation in China and Thailand.

... shouldn't a mint coin possess some traces of luster?



http://www.pcggrading.pl/
http://www.pcggrading.in/

GCN / ECC - I've heard they're average, middle of the road, do not come close to NGC, PCGS or ANACS.

http://www.eccgrading.pl/

GIBON - New, the jury is still out on their abilities. They are guaranteeing a world class grading standard, offering money back if the same coin they graded, receives a lower grade from an American grading service provider. The company behind this grading has a pretty good reputation, so far.

http://www.grading.ksngibon.pl/
http://www.ksngibon.pl/

UPDATE: Company behind GIBON has sold a cleaned, ungraded coin at their auction, without stating the fact that it was cleaned. Hope they do not repeat this practice in their slabs.

PCGM - Store brand grading slab, as far as I know. Comes in several colours.



http://www.emonety.pl/shop/search?q=grading&x=0&y=0

 

Thank you very much, that is most helpful.

 

Bit of an update... I'm sure their grading is the best in Poland at the moment and that mistakes can happen to anyone. Still amusing though.

 

Thanks for posting this, and saving me the time.



Obviously the Chinese don't coin orient their dies.

 

The Poland link no longer works. I guess the operation is sold or changed owners and completely moved to the India website. That link still works, for now.

It is now public knowledge that PCG is no longer a registered company in Poland. That part of this TPG ceased operations as of 2013-10-31.