quick dog

It is a mystery to me. What is the most effective way to learn how to grade coins? It looks awfully subjective. How consistent are various graders? Is coin grading a repeatable process?

Wine tasting has elaborate protocols, with published grading tables and background information on the Internet. Is there something like that for coin grading?

Steve E

It's easy. Just send your coins to one of those back room grading companies you see on ebay. They will come back MS70 or PR70 every time!!!

__________________

Just Another Hoosier
WINS #337

Speedy

The best way I think is to read everything you can on the topic...and then look at as many coins as you can...on the internet...in hand...and at dealers....
They say that the graders at the grading Co's are about 75%-85% right all the time...there is that 15% time when they are wrong.
Also pick what coins you are week on and look at as many as you can of that type...I'm not good with any type but gold is my week point.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

quick dog

Am I to conclude that there are no established standards?

Bonedigger

Well, the RedBook has some basic ones written down as does the ANA.

Bone

__________________
A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.
Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Speedy

There are no SET standerds but the ones most people go by are...
Photograde
ANA Guide
And Hands On
In the real hard truth...Market grading is an art only learned by hands on grading.
The only guide that really uses the Market Grading that is in use today is the newest ANA Grading Guide....

That is why I suggeset reading all you can...that way you don't use 1 way...you mix all of the good ways and come to the point where you grade A OK.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

quick dog

This is really interesting. My impression of the posters around here is that most seem to be much smarter and more educated than posters on other websites. People ramble on ad nauseum about fine points of history and economics. That's why I hang around. I find this stuff interesting. But, no code book for coin grading? Coin grading is one of the fundamental elements of coin collecting. No empirical system? Engineers and scientists attempt to quantify everything. Even flakey old winemakers attempt to quantify wine tasting, which is unbelievably subjective.

Attempting to select the best wine makes about as much sense as arrempting to pick the most beautiful woman. At some point, somewhere near the middle of the bell curve, they simply are not better, just different.

Cloudsweeper99

I have found photograde to be the overall best guide to grading for me, but it's only good up to AU coins. Beyond that point I have only purchased coins slabbed by one of the four top TPGs, and hope for the best.

GDJMSP

Yes there are grading standards, well known ones. But there is no single grading standard that everybody uses. You see, NGC has their own set of grading standards, as does PCGS, ANACS and ICG. NGC and PCGS have published their standards in book form. To the best of my knowledge ANACS & ICG have not.

Then there are the independent grading standards also published in book form - Brown & Dunn, Photgrade, The ANA Grading Standards, Grading US Coins and a couple more that I can't remember the titles of right now. Coin World is also coming out with their own book of grading standards.

All in all - they are all very similar to each other, but different on some points. As already stated, the best thing I can recommend is to read all of them - study them - and create your own comprehensive set of standards that encompasses the entire spectrum. Then study the coins in person. But you have to look at thousands & thousands to get really good at it.

After enough practice, you can pretty well predict how any of the TPG's will grade a given coin. And once you can do that - you're all set. For your grading will be about as consistent as anybody's in today's world.

__________________
knowledge ..... share it

Cloudsweeper99

One conclusion I draw from this discussion is that some of the huge price differences between grades are not warranted based on the lack of precision in grading.

SuperDave

Truer words never spoken.

Although I'm getting pretty familiar with the codified standards like Photograde et. al., I tend to purely market grade for coins in which I'm interested, as evidenced by real-world results like Heritage and Teletrade auctions and Ebay sales. The grade/worth of your coin relates more to what it would bring at retail, rather than what specific grade someone would assign to it.

Frankly, I think the only way a hard set of standards would work is if all coins wore and marked identically. Since this isn't the case, any and all grading has to be subjective and therefore prone to the personal involvement of the grader.

I use the following 10-point personal grading system (lowest to highest):

1) It's round. Must be a coin.
2) Somebody wore 10 cents' worth off this quarter.
3) Golly, that one's been around the block a time or two.
4) Somebody caught it before it got too awful badly circulated.
5) Hmmm. Decent. This might be a keeper, especially if it's rare.
6) I like it. Only spent once or twice.
7) Never in a pocket, but its' bagmates sure had their way with it.
8) This one gave better than it got.
9) I can see this pretty in my collection.
10) OhmyGod! The reflection! I'm blinded!

mrbrklyn

How are you going to standardize it? There is so much variation of which a coin can go through, not to mention that many coins are struck and wear differently.

Ruben

quick dog

Like a rock!

Minerals and rocks have a lot more physical and chemical variation than coins. Geologists, and their specialized scientific cousins, mineralogists, have elaborate, standardized, systems to identify and describe minerals and rocks. Almost any physical object exhibits these features. Standardize them.

Size and Dimension - obvious coin features that are measured today.

Weight- obvious again

Color - color charts could be prepared, with dozens of subtle variations for color standardization. Coloration may indicate where the coin spent most of its existence.

Structure - bends, dents, strike features, etc. Measure and note.

Texture- fine-grained textures, pock marks, dings, polish marks, etc. This is a big one for coin people. You probably should measure and standardize coin-relief features; coin edges, bass reliefs, letters, etc. At least discuss these features in empirical terms. Quantify.

Chemical Composition - This could, and probably is, being used to identify fake coins and report metallurgical contents of modern coins. Metal alloys, especially ancient alloys, are a combination of several metals. The afghans talk about their seven-metal jewelry. The alloys have several metals becasue the ancient metallurgists had great difficulty removing unwanted elements like zinc. I suspect that old coins probably have chemical "signatures", even by coin batchs and dates. I would not be surprised if some modern coins have elemental "tracers".

Weathering and Alteration - Most circulated coins have tinges of silver, and or, basemetal alteration products. The different colors and texutures indicate the presence of different metal oxides, chlorides, carbonates, and other metallic salts.

Forensic science, including forensic geology, rely upon very subtle variations in features to make very critical and repeatable observations possible. I sure that you coin people can think of other features worth standardizing.

GDJMSP

You're barking up the wrong tree here guys. The standards already exist, as I've stated, several of them do. That's not the problem. The problem is getting everyone to agree to use the same set of standards.

The key word in that sentence is everyone. Now I'd be willing to bet, most of those reading this think that means the different grading companies. But it doesn't - it means all of US !

You see, we, the collectors, are the problem.

You think I'm wrong ? Just ask a simple question to find out. Ask - which grading company is the best ? You'll get about 10 different answers. Because, depending on the person answering, they think this company or that company is the best because of the standards they use.

You want to have one universal set of grading standards - that's easy. Just get all of the collectors to stand together as one and agree on which set of standards to use. Until then - forget it.

__________________
knowledge ..... share it

rggoodie

What Speedy says is true, but remember this is only true for American coins
many foreign countries use different grading standards and
ancient and shipwrecked coins are also graded differently.
There are many charts and guides published on the web.

I enven have a multi country referene to grading on my web site under the tab "grading"

The more time you spend studying the individual type of coin(s) you are interested in the better you will become.
I keep a grading "cheat sheet" posted in the area I work on my coins.

I think grading is always a case of

__________________
Richard