Chop Marked Trade Dollar Authentic?

I just posted an intro with some questions- mentioned a coin I bought but have not yet received yet. It turns out that I do have scans of it (thought I didn't). I would greatly appreciate any opinions about problems/authenticity, etc.
Thank you very much.
-david

 

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It's awfully bright... If it's real I'd guess its been cleaned hard to say from the pics tho... Do you have a scale that you can weigh it in grams with?

 

420 grains is equal to 27.22 grams. Since TDs were intended for use in trade with the orient, where the weight of silver, not the nominal denomination, was the key, they carry legends specifying both weight and purity, and were held to very close tolerances.

 

Uncertified trade dollars always come with a risk , on yours the rims seem wrong , usually the dentrils and rin are the same thickness , also the uneveness of the rims is common on some counterfiets , all the chopmarks would indicate this coin really got around though it's hardly worn , those are all red flags to me , hope I'm wrong .
rzage

 

I share the same concerns as Rusty. The rims look too wide to me in areas.The morphology of the stars is very uneven, some look distorted. While some of the chops appear quite heavy, they don't seem to "telegraph" through to the opposite side, either as flattening of the design (if punched while on a stone) or as a bulge (if punched on wood). The surfaces look too mark-free for a coin that travelled around that much. I can't tell if it's authentic with any certainty from the photos.

 

I agree with Rzage. The coin does not look genuine to me. The rims and denticles suspect. Counterfeiters have been known to add chop marks to their fake coins to make them look genuine to collectors who don't know better.

I recommend that you don't buy this coin.

 

I'm not an expert in Trade dollars, but if it is a fake, it's a good one. Seems real to me at first glance, but I have also seen really good fakes of Trade dollars. Trade dollars is one of those areas that's being flooded with Chinese counterfeits.

Good chance that it's real, so don't be discouraged. The only way to really know is to send it to an expert, which is why I suggested ANACS before. Also, when you get the coin and actually see it and handle it up close, that's better too. So please let us know what you get.

 

IMO, this coin looks like a fake. Of course, I'm not an expert by any mean of the imagination, but I've seen a number of fakes posted here, as well as real TDs, and for as many chop marks that this coin has it seems to be in way too good a condition. I also, have posted my own raw TD on CoinTalk and the concensus was that it was real. I would never buy another one that was not authenticated and graded by one of the top TPGs. My concerns are as ksparrows' and rzages'. Weigh it and have a dealer near you look at it. I hope you have a return policy with the seller as you might need it.
Good luck,

Bruce

 

I'll have to disagree , while I hope it's real , the Cinese have gotten so good at counterfeiting that they look nothing like the cast fakes of yesterday , they even use 90% coin silver , and transfer dies , some are so good you need to be an expert with an microscope , Just by the sheer nos. of fakes to real I'd say the odds aof buying a fake is more than getting a real one , of course this is just my limited educated opinion .
rzage

 

I will never buy a raw trade dollar but that's just me. I would say yours looks cleaned if it's not counterfeit which it probably is. Sorry. I would return it if I were you.

 

Rzage, I fear that you are right. The Chinese counterfeit problem in these coins are making havoc in the marketplace. Some of the fakes are getting very sophisticated. I even saw a good fake Trade dollar inside a fake PCGS holder! Yikes! Who are these people? Just think if they devoted all of this time to something constructive.....

 

I disagree.

True, but only after verifying the weight and checking with a magnet. The great majority of fakes are underweight, usually in the 22 g neighborhood, and a very significant portion of them stick to magnets.

A coin like that can never be authenticated from pictures, but frequently they can be debunked from pictures. Looking at

• the denticles/rim
• the relationship of wear and chops
• the overall appearance of the surface

I'd give 8 to 5, with half your money back if you lose, that it's a fake.

 

True . . . BUT, according to Beth Deisher (Coin World Editor) and Greg Dubay (Chinese counterfeit coin expert), Chinese counterfeiters are still cranking out millions of their crude counterfeits. A smaller part of their production is better counterfeits and excellent counterfeits. Greg said that only 1% of the proper-alloy planchets the Chinese counterfeiters use are good enough for their "best" counterfeits and these "best" counterfeit coins are sold for much higher prices than their crude counterfeits.

 

Well known counterfeit seller "jinghuashei" of Beijing has a number of "premium" replicas struck in 90% silver.

 

I HATE chopmarks/////

 

I think we should have our good friend Guido Scarfacio have a friendly talk to Mr. jinghuashei :hug:and make him an offer he can't refuse , like to stamp the word COPY on all his junk or else.:hammer:
rzage

 

Thanks for the info , I figured they would keep making some cheap ones for the tourist trade , Still 1% of what the Chinese put out could be a large number , any idea what that no. is .
rzage

 

Why should he stamp 'COPY' on all his boats?? :goofer:

 

It is my understanding that when the reeding is separated from the rim, as it is on this coin, it's a sure sign the coin is a counterfeit.

 

we have to start a posty of all bad ebay sellers!