PR70 or PR69 ?

ok, I have a question. What is the secret (if there is one) to getting a PR70 rating on a coin and not a PR69?

Lets say for example - I send a 2008 silver proof coin set (still in the mint container) for grading should it receive the PR70? Now if I send in the same coins (in mylar flips) would it receive the PR69?

or. is it a coin toss (pardon the punn) as to what the grade will be no matter how it is sent in?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Question - Do you think that every proof coin that the mint strikes is perfect and identical?

Just asking...

 

It probably wouldn't matter what the coin was shipped in as long as the holder didn't mark the coin. MS 70 is just hard to achieve. Unless it's graded by sgs of coarse.

 

all: I think that you would even find quite a few mint coins that would grade less than a 69, Think about the manufacturing process and how hard it would be to ensure that every coin was a 70.

I could not even image with the Quality control and assurance3 costs would be to achieve that would be. I would bet it would at least double or triple the costs of the coins, at a minimum.

G.E.

 

That is why when people drag the mint over the coals it really annoys me. The last bunch of proof coins I've received from the mint have been perfect. And I mean it. I compare them to each and others and I can't tell them apart even. Even the blown up photos I can tell apart when I do the website. It doesn't even pay to put an image of all the ASE's up any more because the are all exactly alike.

Look at this one for example. I have 4 of these and they look exactly the same



Look at the letter L in Liberty's where it crosses the rays. In 2005 that didn't happen like that so often.

They get better every year.

 

After you get the "perfect" coin where do you go?

Clinker

 

Stamp collecting

 

I though about that, I have a bunch of stamps (got them when I inherited the coins) but I just can't seem to get my head around getting them organized. Too many different ways of placing them. (1 stamp -used/unused, 2 stamps joined, 3 stamps joined with prefaration at the edge, sheet of unused stamps) the list is massive on the different ways a single type of stamp is categorized and filed.
Perhaps now that I finally have my coins organized and taken care of I may tackle the stamps. But then again I still have the 100 or so pounds of real and costume jewelry to go through.

 

In the 6th edition of ANA grading standards it states that MS-70 is a "flawless coin exactly as it was minted, with *no trace* of wear or injury. Must have full mint luster and brilliance or toning"

Then for a MS-67 it states: "Virtually flawless, but with minor imperfections"

Now from a MS-67 to a 69, I don't know what the exact difference is between a trace and minor imperfections but you're splitting hairs for basically 3 grades.

The difference between a 69 and a 70, your average collector, including myself, will probably not be able to pin point. I'd bet if you tested the graders themselves, 'some' recently graded, less obvious 69s would pass as 70s.

A 70 to me means I'm getting something that two professional graders determined had a perfect strike for the coin, no trace of wear anywhere and is as perfect of a product as the mint can possibly put out.

For as much handling as these go through between the minting process and by the time they get to you and then to the grader, it's a miracle that anything can make it into a 70 slab.

Any bit of the smallest minor imperfection and the 70 is gone. I have to believe that most 69's receive this score for some obscure reason, even though many say there is virtually no difference.

Most any modern mint coin, 'that you would consider sending in for grading' because you think it looks perfect, is extremely and almost equally, as likely to get the 69 or 70 grade based on looking at the pop. reports and modern manufacturing. Which is fantastic.

If there was somebody that could guarantee a given coin would get a 70, I'd love to meet them.

 

PR70 is a hoax.
Read my signature....

 

Neither can the grading companies. Until I can get 200 70 graded coins which are cracked open and regraded by the same company, or a different company, and get back all 70's, then they are full of it. And consider this. You have low 69's and high 69's, but a perfect state is a single invariable point of a perfect coin in the mind grader as to what that perfection is since the mint never defined it when the coin was minted.

It is really ludicrous and without any merit whatsoever.

Ruben

 

Well, I disagree. You have to admit that there has to be a top to the scale. Right now, there are better condition coins than 69s so the 70 is needed. There needs to be a number for the ultimate perfect coins, should they deserve it.

May sound goofy but maybe there needs to be a gap? I know it's a point scale but maybe 69 and 70 should just be 70 and anything less than a 70 is a 68? It could be that it is the 69 grade that really isn't needed.

As for prices I'm somewhat torn over whether 70s should command the huge prices over 69s. On one hand, the differences are so, soooo minor, it really shouldn't matter for a modern coin, but on the other hand, a 70 is the ultimate grade and obviously harder to achieve which normally makes them rarer. Ultimate, hardest to achieve, rarer all equals $$, no matter what hobby you're in.

If I can reasonably afford a 70 for not much more than a 69, I will buy the 70. Once the price difference becomes insane by my standards, then it's not worth it. Everybody has different standards and levels they're willing to go to. I would never pay several hundred dollars more for a 70 over a 69. Although I do have some 70s in my collection that were not at huge premiums to me.

 

Grades are not just numbers. They give you order. This hobby along with some others, needs grades to assign appropriate prices. I don't see any other way to do it.

Surely an 1828 CBH in XF condition is much rarer than one in Good condition. I should not expect to pay the exact same price for both. Some type of universal standards and rules have to be in place so you and I know what to pay (and how to describe it).

 

true

 

Yeah the top of the scale is 69. Nothing is perfect.

Ruben

 

Complete vaporware. If you crack them out of the cases and send them back for regrading most will not return with 70 grades.

 

This is a good argument in itself. But really, it just matters to what microscopic of a level do you want to take it down to? If they're grading these at 5x or less, than it does stop somewhere and there should be coins that can be considered perfect. All depends on your definition of perfection. Since the line is drawn somewhere (at 5x), 70 should be attainable. IMHO.

 

Has someone tested this theory on a large scale? How could it be proven that nothing happened in transit? Too many variables. It's just like how people don't want computers to be able to call balls and strikes in baseball. Most are willing and content to stay with the traditional umpire's call. One day a ball may be a strike and vice versa and many times somebody's entire season rides on the line. You have no choice but to live with it.

I believe computers should be introduced into grading, in addition to people though. In this day and age.

 

That gets into the discussion of market grading and mechanical grading which Doug has several sources of on the panel. People do crack open and resend slabs all the times, especially if they're bickering about high grades or want to change the company knowing the characteristics of the grading patterns of different companies. 63's might come back 62 0r 64. A lot of the time they come back the same grade. Under these circumstances, and aside from the fact that so little separates a high 69 from a 70, there is no way they would came back 70's and to my knowledge, not a single person with a 70 coin would be willing to take that risk.

Ruben