Clearly Some people have too much money and not enough brains

Look at this listing of recent says on a major trading site for an 1977-S proof IKE...



Lot Date Grade Service Realized
Auction 28083, Lot 23629 Tuesday, August 19, 2008 70 PCGS $5,606.25
Auction 1104, Lot 3133 Saturday, April 19, 2008 70 PCGS $6,325.00
Auction 1104, Lot 3132 Saturday, April 19, 2008 70 PCGS $7,015.00
Auction 26083, Lot 11540 Tuesday, August 15, 2006 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 26084, Lot 14047 Tuesday, August 22, 2006 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 26092, Lot 11625 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 27042, Lot 11437 Tuesday, April 10, 2007 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 27055, Lot 13697 Tuesday, May 29, 2007 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 27062, Lot 13977 Tuesday, June 12, 2007 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 27071, Lot 11372 Tuesday, July 3, 2007 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 27123, Lot 11917 Tuesday, December 18, 2007 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 66073, Lot 23855 Sunday, July 16, 2006 69 PCGS $21.00
Auction 66075, Lot 23589 Sunday, July 30, 2006 69 PCGS $21.00

According to this market, there is over a $6000 difference between a 69 grade and a 70 grade, all based on the opinion of a grading company, which frankly I've come to believe pick grade 70's out of a hat.

Is the grading companies opion about the split between a 69 and a 70 worth 6 grand? Evidently someone thinks so.


Ruben

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

clearly.......................................

.........mind Boggling!!

 

Since I'm old school (mid 1950's was the peak of my early collecting) I never could figure out MS grading... my old redbooks had AU and UNC... that was it. The price differential between a 69 and a 70 defies all logic (as far as I'm concerned). And why anyone would pay that kind of money... well, I guess P.T. Barnum had the best answer. Anyway, give me a Good/VG and I'll be happy.. I love well worn coins that have a little history (and I can actually touch them)!

 

It is quite amazing. I'll bet the majority of those bidding up the PF70 coins have PCGS registries and are trying to be the best. I'd like to meet the guy who came up with those registries...that allowed the TPGs to basically create the supply of the graded coins and increase the demand at the same time. Brilliant.

 

What is the registry?


BTW - if it makes a lot of money you and I should be equally brilliant


Ruben

 

I appreciate your feelings about this. I like some coins at the best level, but having coins to touch and with some history is also a great thing. In fact, the designs are designed to wear well. I think the Barber Mint supervisor was particularly smart about this and took a lot of flack about it when he didn't deserve it.

Ruben

 

The TPGs have created online databases where people can post their collections. For the PCGS registry, all coins must be PCGS graded and for the NGC registry all coins must be graded by either NGC or PCGS. Points are assigned for each coin depending on their grade and respective rarity. Therefore, people who do this compete with each other to have more points in their collection and gain a higher rank. This one of the reason's for the great change in premiums in coins graded 69 and 70.

http://pcgs.com/setregistry/

http://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx

 

70 might as well be called the "sucker grade."

 

The PCGS registry only allows their own graded coins. That keeps their coins valued higher thus costing more money. It's a way for PCGS to keep themselves in the #1 spot for TPGs. Why would they dilute their registry with NGC coins? When someone sells their registry coins they are going to sell at a premium when their coins carry the pedigree of being PCGS graded.

As for MS69 vs. MS70; It takes a 5x-10x loupe to maybe find one tiny spot on the coin. Then again, maybe it is a flip of the coin...69 or 70.

All I know is my buddy collects Modern coins (ASEs & Comems) all graded MS and/or PF70. The 69's he sells and the 70's he keeps. And the 70s have skyrocketed to ridiculous prices compared to the 69s. 3

 

If I am going to blow that kind of dough on a coin, she better be a beaut, and not some presidential carcass. Well I guess that rules out anything modern.

 

Not "no" but "heck no".

Yep. But nobody on this board !

I've always thought it was someone who thought they were getting a rarity, and paid the big premium. They seem to think "population 5" due to grade 70 is some big distinction.

A coin with extremely low mintage / survivorship is a rarity.

A coin with extremely low PCGS population ? Nuthin' special.

 

Speaking of scams... perhaps I can interest someone in a Cheerios Sacajawea $1 ? No presidents there !

 

Ruben, the owner/submitter/seller isn't going to complain at the higher grade, the grading company isn't going to complain at the higher grade, and the auctioneer isn't going to complain at the higher grade. Who does that leave? The buyer. The buyer is the only one who may complain at the higher grade. And that, in turn (as the subject of this thread suggests), depends on whether or not the buyer has an ounce of brain. Bottom line? It's that these so-called "grading companies" know what they're doing; they know our psychology (better than we do, I'm sure); and they know we'll accept these unreasonable price differentials based solely on their imprimatur.

PS: And now you guys have got me wondering what a CAC sticker on one of these "MS-70s" might go for...

 

whats a CAC

 

only if it's MS 70

 

That's a good question. Here's their website: www.caccoin.com. It's the new thing in third-party grading. You see, not enough intermediaries have a piece in the sale of these coins. Now it's not just the owner, his grading company, and his auctioneer, but, in special, limited, and deserving cases, it's CAC, so as to ensure the accuracy of the grading company you just paid to grade your coin.

 

Yeah, those little stickers can't be reproduced...

 

Now you would not say that if this was not a modern coin. The fact is that there have been almost 10,000 1977-S Proof Ike's graded by PCGS. Over 9,000 of them were graded PF69 while only 13 were graded PF70. I am not about to get into a debate about the difference between the two grades because I don't collect moderns and don't really care. However, you can't say with a straight face that the PF70 with a population that is over 700 times more rare than the PF69 isn't worth a huge (and I mean huge) price increase.

I would never pay $5K for a proof IKE and I would also never pay $5K for a top pop FS Jefferson Nickel, but I don't completely disregard their rarity simply because I wouldn't pay that amount of money for them. This coin is very rare and deserves a high price tag IMO. Conditional rarities of every series bring strong prices due to simple economics, low supply and high demand. Just because this is a conditional rarity of a modern proof does not invalidate it's scarcity.

 

you have a good point. there are millions out there who think buying a morgan ( one dollar) by paying hundreds of dollars is equally foolish but a lot of people on the board do it. just because we wont pay for something oesnt mean its not worth that much
very good lehigh :thumb:

 

Couldn't have said it better. :thumb: