Why are ancient coins so cheap??

I just read the book "The Source" by the well known author James A. Michener. He wrote this book 40 years ago, based on an archeaological dig on a fictional town in Isreal. He goes through about 5,000 years of how this little town existed. I found it fascinating some of the different Roman emporers how they just sacked the city at different times. Especially Vespasian and Domitian. So, for kicks I thought I'd try to find some biblical coins, and coins of these emporers. To my surprise on E*Bay I found many coins! Tons of coins! Many for like $.99 ... More in shipping than the actual coin!!

So I ask.... Why are these coins so cheap? Are they generally cleaned? And if so is that okay? I mean, the thought of holding an ancient Roman coin that some Roman soldier probably bought a beer with 2,000 years ago is absolutely stunning! I really like US coins the best, but I can't help but add a couple ancient pieces to my collection! My son saw a picture of a coin I bid on and he said that was so UGLY! Then I told him in the description it said it dated back to the time of Christ. Immediately he had a new found respect. Ancient coins are legit for the most part right? I mean if I buy them from a place like ancientauctionhouse.com they are going to be real in age right? Outside of being cleaned I can count on them being real? Wow, if so, they have magnificent details for being so old!! It's truly mind boggling! Truly a piece of history if true!

Esky

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Counterfeits and copies abound

Do you know of any good places that are reputable? I've been mainly looking at ancientauctionhouse.com from E*Bay.... I guess part of the allure is like I mentioned before - Holding the same coin that most likely some Roman soldier also held. Any suggestions would be greatly welcome

Esky

 

If You Don't Know Yours Coins, Know Your Dealer

I recommend the VCOINS site of independent dealers, www.vcoins.com. Here is why.

I went to the site mentioned above and they do not say that they are ANA or ANS members. They do not say who the owners are.

On the other hand, the VCOINS dealers identify themselves, are ANA and ANS members, go to conventions, write books and articles, etc., etc.

In the March 2004 issue of The Celator, there was a warning about fake ancients being salted into bargain lots of 99-cent coins.

Bargain lots of uncleaned coins, are not bargain lots of unsearched coins. I have done this, sitting with a dealer, out in the Florida morning sunshine, going through a new shipment from the Middle East, sorting and searching the coins right through the dirt into little packets of approximately equal value -- and putting the better coins aside for a different set of sales... all without cleaning.

I bought my first ancient as a numismatist in 1993. I bought my last in 2002. I have written over a dozen articles about them, one of which garnered an ANA literary award. I rely heavily on the dealers who see hundreds of these at a time, thousands upon thousands, year after year. That goes for ancients, tokens, paper, anything.

Yes, there are things I know that they do not. A little study goes a long way. But if I wanted to move into a new area of collecting, I always start with a reliable, expert dealer, from a trusted marketplace, such as an ANA or MSNS convention bourse floor, or an advertisement in a magazine such as The Celator, or a recommendation from another dealer or collector whom I know from experience to trust.

Read about The Celator here:
http://www.coin-newbies.com/articles/celator.html

Then goto www.celator.com and see if you want to buy a sample issue. Among the bargain dealers with bulk lots are Frank Robinson (retired administrative law judge, author, and expert on Chinese coins) and Francis Rath of Youngstown, New York, who has been doing this for 30 years.

Let me give you one example of a good "pig in a poke" purchase. I was at the Michigan State Numismatic Society convention, looking for ancients and I saw a tray of medieval and asked if he had any ancients. He asked what I wanted and I said, "Got any Ionian silver?" and he said, "Gold can be as cheap as silver." and I looked up and I was facing Andy Singer. Gordon Andreas Singer is well known for medievals -- and he was sharing his table with Edward Waddell, also well known in ancients. Dr. Singer said that he got this little coin in a collection and he knew nothing about it. So, he did not know the coin -- but I knew the dealer... turns out, it's a museum piece... nothing like it... unique... I'm still pretty happy with it.

 

Tell my wife that ancients are cheap, actually when you get into the really nice stuff they are still comparitively inexpensive next to the 1933 $20, but they are not cheap. The most money I have ever spent on a coin was on an ancient.

 

The ones that I see are often 4-5 digit figures. That of course is because they most certainly are stunning pieces, "certified" by dealers, and of course, picked out from hand from the rest of the "junk" green molded ancient coins at times. It is honestly a tedious process if one took time to clean them and identify them. There is no guarantee what lies in there and hence, such "unsearched" lots are so cheap. Of course, there are ways that dealers will benefit most out from it, so I would not put my bets on such "unsearched" lots.

Fortunately, such coins (well a fair bit of them) were minted in ridicious mass so you don't have to fork out too much to assemble different emperors.

 

The Owls of Laurion will nest in your home ...

That is true for me, as well: my Owl cost $600 in 1993. The last ancients I bought were two hemiobols (0.33 grams) from Abdera, the pair for $250. In that range, $250 to $600, I have only ever bought U.S. gold bullion coins, Saints, Five Libs, and the like -- and only when I was working for way more than I am making now. At the last MSNS convention, I spent $60. Forty-five of it was for two notes from Ann Arbor. The balance was was for the usual bourse floor miscellany. That is more my kind of action.

It so happens that I am working on an Access Database of my materials and I have all the coins out. You would be surprised at what I got for $5 -- well, no you would not: you have your own mountain of junk. But when it comes to ancients... reason is out the door...

 

Meditiations

... that said, these ancients were more reasonable. First, a sesterius of Marcus Aurelius for $20. Marcus Aurelius was the Last of the Five Good Emperors, also called "The Philosopher Emperor" for his book, Meditations. In the 1960s movie, Fall of the Roman Empire, he was played by Sir Alec Guiness who later played Obi Wan Kinobi. Guiness played both parts the same: the warrior-philosopher.

After that, a quinarius of Cato the Younger for $45. I actually have two quinarii from Cato the Younger. I like the guy because he was one of the last Republicans to stand up to Julius Caesar. Marcus Porcius Cato (Uticensis) died in Utica. His suicide rather than surrender was a symbol to later Church writers. His death is also why several towns in America are named Utica. Cato's name was also taken as a nome de guerre by other Radical Republicans in various revolutions, most recently by the libertarian thinktank in Washington DC.

The big bronze is the diameter of half dollar and twice as thick.
The little silver coin is half the diameter of a dime and as thin.

 

Those are beautiful coins Mike!

 

Be there or be square

This is the real bargain in ancients, the Bargain Box. (Actually, I think you can see EIGHT separate bargain boxes...) This picture was taken at the ANA Convention in Pittsburgh in 2004.

It is why I find it worthwhile to save my money, spending very little through the year. I have a special bank account into which I put odd earnings and small checks. It accumulates. Every so often, I make the 8-hour drive to some ANA show and spend the night if not a motel (Cincinnati), then with friends (Pittsburgh) or family (New York City). Sometimes, the ANA comes to where I am living (Detroit 1994; Cleveland 1996). When I don't make an ANA convention, there is Central States, and of course the MSNS. You might live near a Blue Ridge or Pacific Northwest or Baltimore or Long Beach show.

Anyway, this bargain box was Your Pick for $5.

 

Sicily, Syracuse AR 8 Litrai reign of Agathokleos(317-289 BCE) My most expensive coin, but worth every ruble. Thousands and thousands of rubles, mounds of rubles

 

Second most expensive, Attic Athens, AR Tetradrachm ca. 449-413 BCE

 

Mike,
Funny you should mention Gordon Singer.I believe he must live here in the D.C. area because one of the stores I frequent has ancients exclusively from him.He hand labels every 2X2 in his tiny distinctive handwriting,including all of the info on the coin.I have purchased dozens of these.I just wish I had saved the original 2X2's.

 

That coin is certainly a conversation piece. Oh to be in college again and to ask the coeds if they want to see my horse. um pegasus.

By the way, if possible could you PM me the dealer you used for that coin.

 

Hi guys. I have bought all of my ancients from Bob Novak at Pantheon Gallery in Illinois. Bob is a great guy, very knowledgeable in ancients and has by far the best prices on ancients that I've seen. He's always willing to work with me on price and is genuinely a nice guy to hang out with and talk with about coins. He also always has a huge supply...everything from $5 to $10 coins and up.

Oh, I also love the "Owls". I've got to get one of those some day.

 

The general reason why ancients are "cheap" compared to later coins is that there were lots of slaves hammering them out in copper and bronze and there weren't any copper/bronze coins made for the millenium between 475-1475, at least not in western europe.

The use of coins was limited during the middle ages and didn't fully recover 'till the renissance.

Roman coppers were soooo common that they were used as ballast on ships all the way to early modern times.

Silver and gold are something different. Some silver is affordable, but the most expensive coin ever sold was a coin of Brutus, and that, methinks is gold.

 

That is very interesting...although it has been about one year and ahalf some one posted on here i thought i might put my own input:
The way you think of coins being about 2,000 years old held by a soldier is very amusing. I think ancient coins are very Unique and should be average price. but who ever put out a ancient coin for 99 cents is just nuts. Look at the coin alot, your holding History there
Aviva

 

I collected Roman coins for a while and recently put pictures of them on a website at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~brianrxm/rxrome/bfrome.htm

None cost more than $50.

A real good website on ancient coins is at:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com

 

I've bought my ancients, cleaned and uncleaned, from www.ancientcoins.ca. Seems quite reputable, and there's a lot of neat stuff on there. Also, I believe the FORVM website sells them, and they have quite a lot of inexpensive 'starter' coins.

 

The sites mentioned so far are great, Ancients.info is another great forum with a little more laid back atmosphere than Forvm has for the most part.


Most of my small collection has come from V Coins dealers.