Hello Everyone - Someone please take a look at this 1971 D Kennedy Half and see if you think it has been whizzed in some areas. I know it is in an NGC holder, but look at Kennedy's cheek in the enlarged view. Am I wrong in thinking this is what the small brush-like marks of a whizzed coin should look like? Thank you, Jim http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41103&item=3968801070&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
The cheek has a couple of hits on it, but other than that all I see are flow lines and die polish marks on the coin. '71 is a tough year for Kennedy halves - that's one of the nicest I've seen. It is definitely NOT whizzed.
I absolutely agree. What I'm trying to understand is that area from the branch in the eagle's left claw down through "E DOL", which has a granular look similar to a poor quality casting. The area under "STATES" is similar, though less pronounced, and of course there is the cheek.
I think what you're seeing is an orange peel effect from the die polishing. But it could be due to small pits ( tiny die chips ) in the die.
Looks like this coin has some attractive toning. My own opinion, which ain't worth much, is that NGC tends to overlook damage on a coin if it has nice toning and will give a high MS67 'net' grade, like an eye appeal grade, even if it technically doesn't deserve the grade. That's why PCGS doesn't get a lot of coins with attractive toning because NGC will usually give the higher grade. I don't think PCGS would go any higher than MS66. This is just my observation and I wouldn't be surprised if some folks disagree with me.
I agree with ya cdb - I think the coin is overgraded myself. But based on your comments - I gather you think PCGS is more conservative when it comes to grading than NGC is - yes ?
Pretty close. I think that NGC would not have graded the coin so high either, if it were not attractively toned. Seems NGC grades can put a lot of weight on eye appeal, a.k.a. toning, where PCGS tends to ignore toning, buts puts more weight to original luster, toned or not. ANACS seems to ignore eye appeal altogether and grades pretty much on technical grade regardless of luster or toning. Mostly. However, a coin with good surfaces, nice toning, and good luster will almost always make a high grade from any of these grading services.
Fair enough. But then I wanna point something else out. Would you agree that it used to be all but impossible to find business strike coins that were graded as MS69 or MS70 ? Yeah you could find quite a few 67's and every now and then you could find a 68. But a 69 - let alone a 70 ?? Well here's a few facts. And these numbers are just from coins graded this year. Lincoln cent NGC MS69 - 45 MS70 - 0 PCGS MS69 - 671 MS70 - 0 Jefferson nickels NGC MS69 - 0 MS70 - 0 PCGS MS69 - 1,077 MS70 - 79 Roosevelt dime NGC MS69 - 2 MS70 - 0 PCGS MS69 - 20 MS70 - 0 Washington quarters NGC MS69 - 0 MS70 - 0 PCGS MS69 - 309 MS70 - 0 Kennedy half NGC MS69 - 1 MS70 - 0 PCGS MS69 - 1,073 MS70 - 141 Now I just included the business strike coins here. If you were to look at the Proofs - the PCGS numbers are anywhere from 3 to 10 times higher than the NGC numbers for the PF69/70 grades. And yet, NGC grades more coins than PCGS does. Food for thought as to who is the more conservative of the two
Another way to look at it - As a rule, a high grade MS PCGS coin is worth more, either sight unseen or on Teletrade or Ebay, than the same coin/grade from NGC, or anybody else. If you have a coin that is a lock high grade MS, then it logically goes to PCGS. If it is not a lock, then send to NGC (and keep your fingers crossed that they will like the toning and hopefully boost the grade). There are a lot more of the latter than the former.
Well, as most of you know TPGs and their slabs are not my area of expertise, but isn't the presence or absence of luster, and whether or not it is "broken" a technical issue as to whether a coin deserves an AU or MS rating?
I will readily agree with your comment that PCGS slabbed coins bring higher prices - no argument. But the question is - why do they ? The simple answer to that is because most people believe that PCGS is more conservative when it comes to grading coins. So folks think that if a coin is graded as MS68 by PCGS that most other grading companies like ANACS or NGC would have graded it as MS69. Therefore the PCGS coin should be worth more money. But if PCGS IS NOT more conservative, as is indicated by the facts - then these people are paying more money for nothing. This is not something new. Many knowledgeable collectors have known this for years. And those who can grade coins accurately themselves can see it at a glance. What is new is that the numismatic press has finally been taking the time in the past few years to do the actual research and keep track of the numbers. Then they are publishing articles containg these numbers so that the general public will become aware as well. The idea that PCGS grades more conservatively is a myth - it always has been. But as is quite often true, more people would rather believe a myth than the truth. Especially when perpetuating that myth puts more money in their pockets. But as more and more collectors have become aware of the facts, the realized price differences between coins slabbed by PCGS and the others have begun to narrow. Eventually they will be equal and then the tide will swing the other way. It is only a matter of time.
In a way yes. But what determines it is how the luster was broken. If it was broken by wear - then no question, the coin is not deserving of an MS grade. But luster does not have to be 100% intact for a coin to be deserving of an MS grade. Luster can be missing due to a coin being dipped, as a result of bag marks - even as a result of a weak strike.
GDJMSP, those numbers you posted, gotta question (might be known by most here)? Do those two companies grade approximately the same total number of coins? I mean if yes then I would say something is wrong with them having such different totals on the 69 and 70 grades but if total number of coins graded is vastly different that might put things in a different perspective. Paul
I think you've gone right to the nail and hit it squarely on the head! I believe you are just as likely to find an unattractive high grade PCGS coin as you are an NGC coin, the only difference being the subtle difference in importance each company attaches to the various characteristcs of a coin. NGC will grade a Kennedy half MS67, even with some fairly obvious digs on the cheek, if the toning is nice. PCGS might do the same if the luster is booming, either with or without toning. I don't think ANACS would give this an MS67 in any case, based soley on the digs in the cheek, toning or booming luster notwithstanding. In addition, this coin exhibits poor striking characteristics with a die pair in desperate need of refurbishing, which eliminates any chance for booming luster. So, the only way this coin could ever make MS67 is to send it to NGC and hope they like the toning. Bottom line, buy the coin, not the slab. This coin is not a premium MS67 unless you are really into toning.