What is the value of TPG (Third Party Grader) certification?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bernard55, Nov 3, 2021.

  1. bernard55

    bernard55 Member

    This question is for those that buy and sell coins...

    There are a lot of past threads that touch on these questions but I could not find one that was both up to date and not mostly anecdotal. I've had these questions for years so I thought it's time for me to ask them...

    I realize there is a lot of passion around the TPG subject--good and bad and the subject of 'value' of a coin is not the primary reason most collectors build collections. This question is not for the collector... it's for the dealer. I'm not interested in anecdotal feedback on why you like or dislike TPG encapsulation. I'd like to hear from those that buy and sell coins as a business on the real value of getting a coin certified by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS -- or another company

    Question 1: It's my (this is you) opinion based on the transactions I've done that on average certification increases the retail value of a coin
    1. negatively
    2. 0%
    3. 1-5%
    4. 6-10%
    5. 11-15%
    6. above 15%
    7. none of the above. it's about cash flow and certified coins are easier to sell

    Question 2: TPG certification includes authentication, grading, valuation, registration (in their database), and encapsulation. Which of these is the most valuable to you or are they all required to achieve the answer you gave to question 1?
    1. Authentication
    2. Valuation
    3. Registration (in their database)
    4. Encapsulation
    5. The value achieved in the answer I gave you to question 1 is only achieved with them all as a package
    6. Other? (please explain)

    Question 3: What does the suspected retail value of a coin need to be to submit for certification?
    1. under $100
    2. $100-$249
    3. $250-$500
    4. >$500
    5. it depends (please explain)

    Question 4: Do you buy TPG certified coins that you think are under graded, break them out and resubmit them in the hope of achieving a higher grade? If so, how big does the value difference need to be between the current grade and your proposed grade? For example, 1809 Capped Bust 50 cent piece currently graded 62 (PCGS value = $5000 https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1809-50c/6092) but you think you can break it out and get a TPG to grade it as a 63 (PCGS value = $10000)
    1. I don't do this
    2. under $249
    3. $250-$499
    4. $500-$999
    5. $1000-$2499
    6. $2500- $4999
    7. > $5000

    Question 5: What coin type (US gold, Colonials, Foreign, Bullion, US-non gold etc..) benefits the most in terms of value from certification? What coin types benefit the least?

    Question 6: What other reasons will you pay a TPG for certification (other than price appreciation and authentication)? Example: The auction service I use only takes certified coins.

    Question 7: Not you of course but what is your opinion of what others are doing (in general) if a coin comes back as ‘Details’. Do they break the coin out and sell it raw?
    1. Never
    2. Sometimes
    3. Always
    4. Not willing to answer the question – but I’m sure it happens…

    Question 8: On the TPG submittal form where it asks what you believe the value of the coin to be… do you:
    1. Low ball value
    2. Put value where you expect it to be
    3. Put a higher value
    4. It doesn’t matter
    please explain...

    Question 9: What TPG certification (in your opinion based on your business) offers you the most upside value?
    1. PCGS
    2. NGC
    3. ANACS
    4. Other (SEGS, ICG etc..)
    bruthajoe and Insider like this.
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  3. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I refuse to answer on the ground that answers may incriminate me.
  4. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    It looks like a test and at my age I can't handle a bad grade, so to speak.
  5. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I respect that answer.....
    Inspector43 and wxcoin like this.
  6. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    I agree with above,no thanks:D:D.
    baseball21 and Inspector43 like this.
  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    It is VERY UNFORTUNATE that this well thought out and potentially very useful set of questions focused on TPGS marketing will probably go bust. :( Serious questions often inspire jokes so I suggest that the OP stop wasting his time here and submit his questions w/o #9 to the TPGS forms and then add #9 and sent this as a poll to CW and NN.
    coin dog, Kentucky and bernard55 like this.
  8. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    1. 7
    2. 1
    3. 5 . . . I typically don't send coins in unless (1) they are worth $300 or more, (2) they are widely counterfeited, or (3) the value jumps multiples between candidate grades.
    4. 2 . . . I am not a crackout artist, and typically don't do this, although I have done so on a few occasions. In those cases, I thought the coin would increase in value by at least $200.
    5. Gold coinage
    6. Detailed attribution (error type, provenance) as long as the value of the attribution justifies the expense of submission.
    7. 2 . . . I think there are some who break out and resell every Details coin they can buy, and there are others who have never cracked a coin out at all.
    8. 2
    9. No acceptable answer available to select. It varies from series to series (no TPG is most or least conservative at all series), from buyer to buyer (some have completely brainwashed allegiance to just one TPG) and when coins have borderline problems (some pass over the issue while others detail the problem).
    bernard55 likes this.
  9. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Agreed Skip . . . I gave it the time for good reason
    bernard55 likes this.
  10. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Oh, please....better than thou humblebragging.
  11. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    one question at a time, once a month and use the poll formate to make it easier on us. this, this is like one of those surveys you fill out for a free big mac or something.
  12. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    You assume that grading has the same effect on coin value across the board, and that is clearly not the case.

    Some markets have come to accept graded coins to the point where the base value of the coin assumes it is graded, and raw coins are worth less, rather than graded coins being worth a premium. For example, I would argue this is the case with trade dollars, where it is not that people pay a premium for a slabbed example, but that a raw example is penalized on value because people assume it is details or of suspect authenticity.

    In other markets graded coins are looked at as an annoyance and they may actually decrease the appeal if not the value of the coin.

    Your questions are good, but the answer to all of them is probably "it depends" because you haven't specified what type of coins you're talking about. You'll get widely different answers from different people talking about completely different markets and they will all be correct.
    Oldhoopster and bernard55 like this.
  13. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    All....all the questions are built from the premise that the hobby is based on profit. It is a marketing presentation, and is skewed accordingly.

    Supposedly asked of both buyer and seller, and that is a failure, because a person can be both (and usually is, on some level), yet the answers would not be the same depending on which hat, and it forces a profit decision in the choice of answers.
    wxcoin and Inspector43 like this.
  14. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Collecting Since 1948 Supporter

    I disagree. The hobby is NOT based on profit. I have been collecting since 1948 and have no interest in profit. I think there are hobbyists and flippers. Although I suppose one could be both. To me this is a hobby. It is fun. And I think that the vast percent of the old souls in the hobby would agree. Younger folks that grew up with eBay and the internet probably look at the potential for profit more than the potential to pass this on to future generations.
  15. bernard55

    bernard55 Member

    Thank you for the thoughtful answer. This is very helpful.
    Insider likes this.
  16. bernard55

    bernard55 Member

    my apologies, I was trying to direct the question to coin dealers that worry about the profit side of their business.
    coin dog and Insider like this.
  17. bernard55

    bernard55 Member

    Thank you for the thoughtful answer. In this context what is a 'market'? is it an auction site such as ha.com? or an area of the world? or a type of coin (ancient vs. US gold)?
  18. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I think you may have misconstrued my post.

    I agree with you. The questions presented do not stem from your or my position. The questions are based on a for profit premise, and are skewed and are based on making a market. If a person is both a buyer and seller, and states their answers to the profit based questions would be the same, I call baloney, as it would defy human nature and would be limited to the answers provided by Mother Teresa, only.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  19. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Collecting Since 1948 Supporter

    Well stated Charley.
    charley likes this.
  20. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    charley, posted: "Oh, please....better than thou humblebragging."

    Thanks for making my point! :smuggrin:

    Jaelus, posted: "...In other markets graded coins are looked at as an annoyance and they may actually decrease the appeal if not the value of the coin."

    What are these other markets, ancients?

    Additionally, I disagree with much of your post. The OP's questions can be applied to any item submitted to a TPGS. That includes tokes, ancients, ball cards, etc.
    bernard55 likes this.
  21. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    That is not what you stated, though. No reason to apologize, and if that is the audience of the questions....Dealers only...that is so exclusive as to be of little value, because it calls into question an us vs. them conclusion, and does so without the shield of anonymity, and leaves no escape for the dealer to defend their stated market practice to customers. I would not entertain such a list of questions in an open forum format that exposes me to present or future clients based on my answer to the questions.
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