What is a fair price for a Morgan repousse/"pop out" coin?

Yes, I'm darn near a year-and-a-half late with my reply, but do you have a photo of the reverse of your Grandfather's pop-coin watch fob? I've been fascinated by Pop-Coins for well over fifty years and though I was diverted by other impending issues, I'm reviewing a number of older postings such as yours. BTW, don't believe everything you read or hear about these items, e.g., NO, they don't necessarily have to have Patent Tags (of which there were several types) to be the early antique/vintage pieces. Again, I will certainly appreciate a photo of your fob's reverse. Thnx, Sam_I_am

 

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There are a lot of better things that can be done with $150, IMO.

 

Here are both the front and back.

 

Thank you for your prompt effort in posting those photos. From the several similar fobs that I handled over many years, I don't ever recall one of them with a patent tag on it; not even on any of the Our Martyred Presidents (McKinley, Garfield & Lincoln) three-coin fobs. And your fob appears to be in better-than-average condition. Am I correct from the appearance of the photographs that the fob was either gold-plated or gilted, as especially evidenced by the interior "protected crevices" of the reverses. Though I would doubt it, should you ever wish to part with it, please feel free to run it up my flagpole; I just might salute! Thanks again. Sam_I_am

 

Thank you for looking it over. I don't believe it was plated or gilted. Grandpa brought it back with him and put it away. It was passed to my father, then to me, so it was stored all these years. I will pass it on to my oldest daughter who is still in the military having served as a Marine then with the 82nd Airborne. Tours of duty included Iraq, Kuwait, Korea. Leading troops thru the streets of Fallujah during the worst of it, and a gunner on a Humvee just to name two. Grandpa called it a Victory Medal.

 

We need @saltysam-1 in this thread.

 

A point of clarification please, @Nyatii. If your antique pop-coin watch fob has not been plated or gilted, is the apparent gold or brass-like areas (especially the recessed areas of their reverses, the jump ring connectors between the coins, & the hook hardware) of your photos just a function/malfunction of the photo's lighting &/or poor unfiltered lighting?

 

I broke back into the hidden gun room, and dug the medals out of a safe. Takes about 10 minutes to get to. Now I'm confused. The hook hardware appears to have a gold plating on it, but couldn't find any markings. It almost looks like a plating over brass coins, but the coins don't look cast, and the gold looking part on the coins looks new rather than oxidized like I think brass would after 100 years. And the edges of all three coins have crisp reeding. I wonder if they would have put a light plating over the coins/medals with brass in order to get another plating to stick to the silver? I know from plating guns I had to copper plate first to get gold to stick to the metal parts. Doesn't make sense to do that, and it would have to be very light in order to keep all the devices from filling in.

 

A modern electroplater would use nickel plating prior to gold plating in order to save on gold. The nickel layer enables a more consistent thickness/thinness of the gold thereby saving money using a thinner gold plate yet meeting consistent minimum gold thickness as stipulated in a contract's minimum specs!

However, in the case of your grandfather's fob, I suspect the plating/gilting was the old style ormolu gold-mercury amalgam process now considered dangerously poisonous. I have some similar antique jewelry which suffered from such wear and thinning appearance. Thanks & sorry to put you through the extra effort of the search, but now you better know what you have. To enjoy grandpa's fob and display it nicely, I'd suggest hanging it in a glass or acrylic watch bell in the family China cabinet. What good are such items if we can't enjoy them?

 

Thank you again for more information. Wouldn't the coins be a gold color rather than silver if they used the ormolu gold-mercury amalgam process?

 

I can't explain why but by the numerous antique pieces I've observed over many years, I don't believe ormolu gilted items wore nearly as well as electroplated items. I've also observed that deteriorated plated look not only on antique jewelry, but frequently on gilted bowls and tines of antique silver flatware for which those parts were gilted not only for enhanced appearance, but to protect them from particularly salty or acidic foods. Perhaps a chemist from among the CT members can explain the difference in the sustainability of electroplating vs. ormolu.

 

melt - 10% for potential loss of metal

 

You've obviously & unfortunately been exposed to the influence of some shyster dealer(s) who take unreasonable & unconscionable liberties when buying merchandise from unsuspecting members of the public and newbies such as yourself. Firstly, why in G_d's name would one discount any decent pop-coin? It may not be collectible numismatcally, but is definitely worth more than the “melt” to which you refer; it is a collectible antique or example of exonumia!
Secondly, if electroplating or ormolu adds to the original item, even if only measurable in microns of thickness, any loss of metal would be inconsequentially nominal and, in fact, still be a plus! The only loss is in appearance &/or possible desirability, certainly not a loss of weight.
If you don't wish to become known as a shyster yourself, you need to find an honest dealer from whom to learn. Being a sharp buyer is one thing; being a thief is quite another! Good luck!

 

The only known pricing guide I have is the one by Robert J. Stump, Second Edition, 2012. These are hard to find and were printed in a very limited capacity. This page was the closest I could find but gives you a general idea what the asking or retail price would be.

 

In electroplating the gold layer is built up atom by atom with each atom settling into it normal "crystaline" structure resulting in a solid layer of metal on the object. In ormolu the gold/mercury amalgum is rubbed on the substrate and the mercury forms a bond with that metal as well. Then the object is heated vaporizing off the mercury. The gold layer left behind is then burnished to give it its shine. But that gold layer isn't solid like the plating layer. On a microscopic scale it is more like a sponge due to all the voids left behind by the missing mercury. This "sponge" gold layer is softer and thus more susceptible to wear.

 

Thank you @Conder101 for an explanation of the difference between Gold Electroplating & Ormolu that I could understand and appreciate. I realize that the Ormolu process is avoided now because of its noxious dangers, but do you know of anyone who still might use that method in antiques restoration? It does have a certain resulting appearance that I've not observed on items restored by Electroplating.
I admit that high school Chemistry was the only class which I only barely passed with a D. I was a darned good student in English, History, Government and such, a moderately decent student in Mathematics & Geometry, but Foreign Languages & Chemistry were not my forte. However, what I do affectionately recall of my Chemistry teacher was his use of the term horsefeathers instead of other excrement referenced epithets; I still use it and think of him over a half-century later.

 

I inherited a Morgan dollar pop out coin from my grandpa. and then I decided to give it to my dad turns out my dad gave it to my grandpa. It seems fake though because you can not see the reverse on the back.

 

@Noah Finney … How about some photos … obverse & reverse. Yes, I've seen cast uniface "counterfeit" pop-coins, but your inability to see the reverse of your coin may be the result of mounting in jewelry or some other use.

 

I don't have my dad does I would have to ask him, maybe in the future

 

@saltysam-1 OK, you've got me stumped… WTF is Robert J. Stump, Second Edition??? What is the title of this catalog/price guide? I have issues with the items in the photos and the prices attributed thereto, but I'd like to know more about the catalog/price guide and the context of the listings before going into details. Please advise.