Tooled Key Date Mercury Dime on Ebay

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by rbm86, Sep 19, 2004.

  1. rbm86

    rbm86 Coin Hoarder

    Attached below is an Ebay auction for a 1921-D Mercury dime which has obvious tooling of details on the obverse and reverse. I think this is worse than the Chinese fake coin auctions, as this is a seller with a 2700 feedback rating, 99.8% positive. I sent a note saying that the coin was tooled and he/she should pull the auction. I have yet to receive a response.

    The seller's other auctions are mostly cleaned junk (some look like they have been cleaned with a Brillo pad). He/she probably keeps the rating high due to a liberal return policy -- those who find out they got crap return it and get an refund, and hence do not leave a neg.

    However, this one is fraud and has attracted a 4 bids. If the seller does not pull this soon, Ebay fraud will hear from me.

    Miss Toolie Mercury
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    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    rbm -

    You should take a look at some of the other coins he is offering - it appears to me that many of them have been tooled, harshly cleaned and vastly over-graded.

    I wouldn't touch anything he offers with a ten foot pole.

    This seller is a prime example of why you must know what you are buying !! Just because a seller has a good feedback rating - or someone else has told you that a particular dealer can be trusted and sells quality coins - that doesn't mean it is true.
  4. collect4fun

    collect4fun Senior Member

    Looks like Mercury went to a hair stylist before modeling for that coin. LOL

    That does not even look close to a real UNC coin.
  5. Metalman

    Metalman New Member

    Check out the dent on the mint mark, this coin may have even been punched with a D ,,, and looks to be a full band dime also, such a deal !!!
  6. rbm86

    rbm86 Coin Hoarder

    Understood, I did see the other crap he is offering, and most of it looks like it was scrubbed with a Brillo Pad. :p Even without the tooled coin, I would not touch anything this dealer has to offer with an 11 foot pole!! This was flagged by someone on the CU forum, but it really makes my blood boil which is why I am commenting on it here. My coments initially on the cleaned junk he sells underscores how you cannot solely rely on feedback.

    It is precisely this feedback the seller has built up -- that gives him the appearance of "credibility" and is why this tooled dime is attacting bids. To me, this is a worse type of fraud, because it is more under-handed. :mad: :mad: :mad:

    To make matters worse, some of the feedback comments indicate the seller attends ANA shows. If this person is an ANA member, then selling this coin is even more reprehensible. But again, being an ANA member does not mean a seller is honest -- buy presumably you could go to arbitration with him.
  7. rbm86

    rbm86 Coin Hoarder

    Yeah, what a deal. I gotta say whoever crafted the FSB did a decent job, but still obviously tooled. You would think someone with that ability could earn a living honestly!! :(
  8. Sarawakian

    Sarawakian Member

    are you guys talking about the hair around the ear/cheek area? I am not familiar with tooling of coin, why would someone do that, isn't it very hard to do such as task?

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's not that hard really - you sit down with a fine pointed metal tool and literally scratch the design back into the coin. But whoever did this - didn't even do a good job of it.

    As to why - simple - money. They are hoping to lure some unsuspecting collector into buying these damaged and altered coins for a great deal of money when they are actually worth about face value :mad: :mad:
  10. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Well, that silver dime is worth about 50¢ at melt. :D
  11. jody526

    jody526 New Member

    If you are going to use Feedback as a means to judge a seller's honesty, you need to know how to use it correctly.

    Here is what some of his customers have to say...


    This seller does not leave feedback for his buyers, until they leave it for him.

    This is meant to discourage buyers from leaving negative or neutral feedback, because most of them realize that a negative or neutral left, will get them a negative in return.

    You can easily check to see how a seller handles feedback, by looking at his feedback "received by", and then looking at his feedback "left for", and then comparing the dates on on matching auction numbers.
  12. rbm86

    rbm86 Coin Hoarder

    I was not suggesting this guy was honest. My point was is he gives the appearance of honesty, which is why he is being so bold as to offer a tooled Merc for sale.

    I can understand why sellers are reluctant to give feedback until they receive it first. Buyers may use the threat of negative feedback as extortion to get unreasonable concessions from a seller based on suspect or baseless claims.
  13. jody526

    jody526 New Member

    Sorry, but that that dog won't hunt.

    A seller who believes in the quality of his merchandise, and has been paid in full for his item, has no reason not to leave positive feedback for the buyer.

    Sellers that withold feedback, as a means of extorting positives from their buyers, are telling me a lot about the way they do business, and it aint good.

    One thing is for sure. If you sell on eBay long enough, you're gonna wind up selling to the right newbie, one day, and that 100% positive rating is going right out the window. It doesn't matter how honest you are, or how good your TOS are, it's gonna happen.

    Think about it. How often is a seller going to sell to an extortion artist? Be honest about it.
    He'd probably stand a better chance of hitting the lottery.

    I can tell you that very few sellers have ever gotten me to leave feedback first.
    I have no need for any more positive feedback, but I will return the favor, if the seller goes to the trouble to post it first, otherwise, I couldn't care less one way, or the other.
    I also email my sellers as soon as the item arrives, to let them know that all is well.

    I consider a lot of things before I decide to send money to someone I don't know. How they handle feedback is one of them.
  14. susanlynn9

    susanlynn9 New Member

    I read over all of the feedback comments and this guy has definitely been getting by because of his return policy. Which means, if a buyer is knowlegeable, he won't have a problem returning the coin - BIG DEAL! It's the new buyers/collectors who purchase his junk and don't find out till years later that they bought cleaned/altered coins that are only worth their metal content. I sent the seller emails on 3 of the auctions, along with an email on the Merc telling him that if the auction is still running as is in an hour, I'm reporting him for coin fraud.
    Why do you think he's a member of the ANA? I didn't see any info for it in the auction? If he was, I'd report all of these to the ANA. They would definitely have something to say about this. I really wish that eBay would consider making membership in the ANA mandatory for people who want to sell coins. That would give the ANA some leverage of their own without eBay.
  15. rick

    rick Coin Collector

    I hate it when sellers wait for the buyers feedback - if I buy an object, and pay quickly, then my job as the customer has been complete, and I have satisfied my end of the deal in good faith.

    when sellers do this, I always felt it was like a threat...

    But I have only ever had good ebay experiences with the things I buy, so I've never had reason to leave a negative.
  16. susanlynn9

    susanlynn9 New Member

    We wait to leave feedback, but it is not a threat. It is our feeling that until we know the customer is happy, the transaction is not finished. We have never used feedback as a threat. In our minds, when we know that the customer is happy, then we can finish the transaction with our feedback. We include a letter with every item we ship that states this and none of our customers have ever had a problem with it. We have loads of repeat customers and we have never refused a return. (There have only been 3 in well over 1500 transactions.) I know that there are sellers who use feedback as a threat, but not all sellers who wait to leave feedback are doing that.
  17. susanlynn9

    susanlynn9 New Member

    I just reported the Merc to the CCW and also to Drew Marich, the manager, in a private email.
  18. Metalman

    Metalman New Member

    I agree with Rick, Once a buyer has held up their end by sending payment, then the seller should leave feedback then ,,not after the buyer !!!

    It appears that this guy doesnt care if they return the coins, He still is making a profit off the shipping,But I can tell you right now that Ebay wont do anything, all of their fraud investigations are on a voluntary basis,if the seller does not want to participate he does not have to,

    I have first hand knowledge from an action that I filed against a seller who generates over 100 negatives a month, and is still doing business.
  19. rbm86

    rbm86 Coin Hoarder

    In one of his feedback replies, he mentioned attending an ANA convention as an excuse for not replying promptly to e-mails. That does'nt mean he is a member, as he may have only been buying and not selling, or he could be lying. Imagine that!
  20. susanlynn9

    susanlynn9 New Member

    I understand what you are saying and why. However, consider this scenario (this really happened). A client that we were selling records for (under his ID) left feedback right after receiving payment. The customer receives the record and negs our client and says that it should have been mentioned that there was a notch in the album cover. It was clearly stated in the auction in big, red letters but the buyer did not read the listing. If our client had not left feedback already, the odds are greater that the buyer would have contacted him instead of just leaving a negative feedback. Feedback extortion can work both ways. If the seller has not left feedback yet, there is a greater chance of the customer contacting the seller to work out any problem. Speaking as an honest seller, I would always rather work out any problems with my customers. And, yes, we accept returns even when they are not really warranted because we do strive for customer satisfaction and we do stand behind everything we sell. The letter that we send our customers includes our phone number so they can even call if they choose. We have never had any complaints from our buyers that our customer service has been less than exemplary. For that reason, I would not change the way we handle our feedback.
  21. jody526

    jody526 New Member

    Yep. That's pretty much the standard reply.
    My question is, what does the transaction being finished, have to do with leaving feedback?

    If that were the case, then your feedback for the buyer would be nothing more than a reflection of your own performance.
    Something like, "I sent him his coin, and he was happy with it".
    That makes no sense to me.

    Once you are paid, with good funds, within the time limits of your TOS, the buyer has fulfilled his end of the bargain. It's then time for you to let the rest of the eBay community know this by leaving feedback.

    Waiting to see if he's happy, has nothing to do with it.
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