Toned Morgan Uplift?

I spent a couple of days at the Houston Money Show this weekend, and was amazed at the volume of toned Morgans and the frequently tremendous uplift in price of a toned version over a non-toned, white version. I asked one of the dealers what kind of increase he was seeing for toned Morgans and he indicated anything from 20% to double in price (becoming common ) for nice rainbow toning. This seemed high to me, but also seemed to be pretty common on the floor.
My questions -- What kind of premium, if any, are you willing to pay for toned Morgans at the same grade? Are you seeing the same kind of uplift?
John

 

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I would discount those Morgans every bit as I would discount the Blast White ones. Both are adnormal for an aging coin and distictly ugly, reducing the eye apeal and value. A good morgan is like good scotch, with the correct aging and no vinegar.

Ruben

 

But if the toning is natural as opposed to artificial, isn't that similar to the maturing of a fine wine or a fine scotch? A wine that will mature nicely over 10-15 years certainly has a different taste after many years (softer tannins, rounder body) than the same wine if consumed early on. Clearly if the wine is corked, it will taste bad -- like artificial toning. Could one make the same analogy with Morgans -- coins that have toned naturally over the years develop a fine patina, some with striking results. I am just surprised at the premium I saw on the floor at the show for those with toning. It seemed to me that at the same grade the toned were bringing a significant premium. At the highest grades (67) they were almost all blast white. Just interesting I thought.
John

 

Vinegar is natural...

The toning should be a slate even coloration as if it was unpolished silver, not plugged with gama radiation.

Ruben

 

So what causes the toning that I am seeing in these slabbed Morgans? Some of them are slightly golden toned, some are total rainbow toned?
John

 

I think it's a beauty in the eye of the beholder situation. If the eye appeal is great for the coin, there will be a premium. Collectors of toned coins look at those coins like unique art, they know there isn't another one in the world that is exactly like it and if they find one that really appeals to them they will pay huge premiums for it. For that reason I can't set a number of how much of a premium I would pay. I don't collect toned coins at the moment, but I could like to add a couple to my collection at some point. I think you have to evaluate each coin individually and come up with a value that the coin is worth to you...you can't generally say "I will pay only a 20% premium" because each purchase is going to be unique and the collector's of each piece will be different.

Morgan's were stored inside canvas mint bags far many years. The canvas released a gas (I believe it was sulfur rich) that caused the rainbow toning. Coins that made contact with the canvas in bags that were stored in the proper temperature and humid environment developed a rainbow tone slowly over time.

 

Rainbow toning on Morgan Dollars is a result of the coin coming in contact with the canvas bag for years, possibly decades. There is nothing unnatural about it, vinegar not withstanding.

If you would like to read a little more about rainbow toning and the associated premiums they drive, I encourage you to read the following thread.

http://cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=39837

If you have any specific questions about toning, I would be more than happy to answer them. BTW: I will be doing a thread very soon that details the different types of toning with photographic examples.

 

I wan't my discount please!



Anytime someone gives me an excuse to post this coin, I will. One of my lifetime coin collecting goals is to own this coin.

 

Fine by me, you have (or can find) some of the most beautiful coins I have ever seen. Keep 'em coming!

 

I agree. People treat rainbow toning as if it is somehow "better." It's unnatural even when it is natural which probably is far less often than supposed. I love an old morgan with the even slate color on clean surfaces more than white or rainbow.:thumb:

 

looks like a box of crayons was used all over it...

Don't you LIKE coins? why do you like to display them also distorted like that...

 

Isn't that another word for Damage? The coin was in contact with a substance which was toxic to its surface. This needs to be treated like Verdis in coppers!

If you want rainbows buy diamonds!



Ruben

 

Yea but what makes a good salad dressing vinegar ,and oil with some oregeno in it. So what makes a beautiful morgan dollar aging ,and natural toning gives it more eye appeal just the opposite and,without the vinegar and oil. Get my drift
Jazzcoins Joe

 

So, I'm a little confused by what you're saying here. You say you don't like the blast white coins from this era because they are unnatural for the age of the coin. Implying that only toned coins are natural. But, then you slam the coins that have the toning that has developed saying it has progressed too far and is damage comparing it to verdis. But, if toning is like verdis...then all toning is bad. Any amount of verdis on copper is incredibly damaging to the metal. It's almost like you are ruling out basically every older silver coin saying that if it's blast white it's a problem coin and if it's toned it's a problem coin. What else is there?

 

I'm thinking this may be the time to buy untoned Morgans with all the hype around the toned ones.

 

Silver tones, or tarnishes, over time, no matter where or how it's stored. It's a chemical reaction within the metal. All metals do it. If you for some reason suspect a rainbow tone is unnatural, next time you're around a steel structure, say ribbon rail on tracks or untreated beams for bridge construction, look closely and you'll see that virtually all of the steel is rainbow toned....and it wasn't because they had a 38 ton section of steel rail sitting in a canvas bag somewhere...it's because thats what metals will do given time.
Guy~

 

toning like that Gr8888888888T

 

I'll buy that coin from you!!!!

 

A beautiful work of natural Art what a painting
Jazzcoins Joe

 

What I'm saying is that I have a $4000 12 stick silver candledabra, a 3 foot silver Menora, 3 silver kidiish cups, and a 12 sitting silver dinning set, in addition to dozens of silver coins and that they NEVER turn rainbow colors...
not even my grandmothers Shabbos Candle sticks that haven't been polished or touched in about 40 years.




Ruben