The Indian Head, $2.5 and $5 Gold Pieces

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by tmoneyeagles, May 17, 2009.

  1. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Theodore Roosevelt is a well known U.S. president, who changed the face of U.S. coins, and numismatics forever. He left a lasting mark on U.S. coinage by the first ever incused designed, indian head quarter and half eagle circulating gold coins.
    The idea of this new, incused design, gold coin, was suggested to President Roosevelt by one of his close friends, William Sturgis Bigelow, and the president approved of this design, and made Bigelow responsible for making a model of the new $2.5 and $5 gold pieces. William Bigelow got the help of a talented Boston Sculptor, Bela Lyon Pratt, to make these models. Pratt sent in his finished models to the United States Mint on June 29, 1908.
    Bella Lyon Pratt’s designs were as follows:
    Obverse shows an Indian wearing a war bonnet.
    Reverse shows an eagle perched upon a fasces bundle wrapped in an olive branch, symbolizing military readiness and peace

    When design work had begun on the Indian Head Quarter Eagle, the motto used on today's coins, “IN GOD WE TRUST” had been removed from U.S. coinage. President Roosevelt considered it a violation of the Bible, and a sin, to use God’s name on coins, and thus he suspended its use on any coin.
    Before President Roosevelt could act, United States Congress put an end to all motto controversy by passing a bill on May 18, 1908, making it law, that the motto be present on all gold and silver coinage. A later law, made in 1955 made the motto of "IN GOD WE TRUST" mandatory of all U.S. coinage, which is a law, still in effect today.

    The Indian Head Quarter Eagle had already begun appearing in circulation use in, November 1908. The design started tons of negative opinions, and controversy. In a letter to President Roosevelt, in the the February 1909 edition of The Numismatist, Samuel H. Chapman gave his honest opinion against the new coin:

    "It was the hope of every one that when our new coinage appeared we would have one of great beauty and artistic merit. But the new $5 and $2.50 gold pieces just issued totally lack these qualities, and not only those of beauty, but actually miss the practicability to which every effect of beauty in relief has been sacrificed…. The head of the Indian is without artistic merit, and portrays an Indian who is emaciated, totally unlike the big, strong Indian chiefs as seen in real life….. The sunken design, especially the sunken portion of the neck of the Indian, will be a great receptacle for dirt and conveyor of disease, and the coin will be the most unhygienic ever issue…. These coins will be a disgrace to our country as a monument of our present ideas of art as applied to coinage."

    On top of the complaint written by Mr. Chapman, another complaint was that the Indian Head Quarter Eagle and Indian Half Eagle did not stack well with others, and it did not stack to the equal stack height of the same number of the coin to that of the preceding coins, the Coronet Quarter Eagle. This caused trouble for many bank tellers trying to do quick counts, of the gold coinage. Samuel Chapman did not give up easily, and wanted to be heard. He took this, directly to the president, himself. President Roosevelt's support of the new gold coinage did not change, and even if Roosevelt's mind did change on this coinage, Pratt's design was protected by United States law, which required coin types to be minted for a minimum of 25 years before being replaced by a new design. Another complaint with these coins, was that germs and toxins could get stuck, in the crevices, and sunken in areas of the coins, which could spread germs, and could cause widespread sickness, throughout America.

    Indian Head Quarter Eagles were struck every year from 1908 through 1915, after 1915, production was halted. 10 years later, in 1925, the minting of the quarter eagle resumed, but ended in 1929, following the crash of the stock market, and the beginning of the great depression. There may have been rumors, and plans to maybe someday mint quarter eagles once again, but as the Great Depression continued, and showed no signs of letting up, the Untied States government, in 1933, discontinued the minting of all gold coinage. 1933 was the last year of any CIRCULATING gold coin, minted by the United States Mint.

    The Indian Head Quarter, and Half Eagle are two of the most collected gold coins, collected by numismatists today, coin collecting, they are a beautiful design, and in my opinion are probably one of the best coins, ever minted, by the United States. These are the coins I enjoy collecting the most, they are not only history, but portray so much beauty of a Native American, and an Eagle.
    The Indian Head Quarter Eagle, My Favorite Coin

    1911 AU58 Close Up.JPG

    1911 AU58 Close Up Rev..JPG

    1912 AU55 Close Up.JPG

    1912 AU55 Close Up Rev..JPG
     
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  3. mgChevelle

    mgChevelle AMERICAN

    awesome post, thanks. i love the history.
    these are amazing coins IMO. im currently looking to buy some.
     
  4. WLhalves

    WLhalves Member

    Awesome T$ as always superb! You rock dude!
     
  5. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Thanks... It took me a little while to type this..
    I got the info, and put the rest in myself, just compared it to another article, but I wanted to add my own kick to it, before I showed it to y'all :)
    Indian $2.5, I'm proud to call it my favorite coins
     
  6. Morgan1878

    Morgan1878 For A Few Dollars More..

    I have a passion for good design..whether it's coins or vacuum cleaners..
    This is an incredible coin design..it's timeless, stylistically unique and on top of everything else..the striking of the coin was done incuse, rather than relief..the first U.S. coin to be struck in this manner.

    The picture you see is the only one I own..but I will be chasing a $5 version when the time is ripe...
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Morgan1878

    Morgan1878 For A Few Dollars More..

    tmoneyeagles..forgot to thank you for providing all of the history behind the coin.
    I learned a lot.

    Like many groundbreaking endeavors in art...this design of this coin had it's share of controversy..especially interesting was the idea that disease would be spread due to crud accumulating in the crevices.

    If that were true, I'd vacuum my car more often..
     
  8. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Chapman was wrong, as are most negative people (who refer to themselves as "truly informed").

    To the Chapmans of the world, especially contemporary whiners, my man Teddy Roosevelt has this to say :

    "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;

    who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming;

    but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions;

    who spends himself in a worthy cause;

    who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "
     
  9. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP

    Also one of the toughest to grade and one of the most counterfeited coins out there. One of the best designs for sure.
     
  10. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    If you like these coins (and I love 'em), then consider these books :

    "A Collector's Guide to Indian Head Quarter Eagles" - Fuljenz / Winter
    "A Handbook of 20th-Century US Gold Coins" - Akers
     
  11. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Some people think the 1926 is the best made of the Indian $2.5 series.

    In general, the final 5 years do tend to be the best. (1925D - 1929).

    1908 is the weakest. Not surprising; it was the first year of a new technology.
     
  12. troublesbrewin

    troublesbrewin remember rotary phones?

    :hammer:

    I love 'em too, great article "Tmon"

    That's one set I'd really really love to fill.

    here's a quarter eagle:

    1926 $2.5 MS 63 arch.jpg

    and a half eagle:

    1916 S $5 AU58 arch.jpg

    Thanks for the history lesson.

    and as .900 fine says "let the critics be damned" :bow:
     
  13. cherylkubucko

    cherylkubucko Grandma Froggie

    Nice, I would like to get one of them someday. Thanks of sharing them with us, like the history too. Cheryl
     
  14. gbryan

    gbryan New Member

    The 1911D 2.50 gold indian is so expensive that I have been tempted to buy an improperly cleaned coin with this date just to complete the collection.However that is still a pretty healthy investment at $2000.00.Would you think I would be better off to save my money until I can buy this coin in a better grade?
     
  15. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Yes, yes, and yes... :)
    Just keep on saving, and bite your tongue when you see a coin you want.. :)
    In no time, you could have 11 D AU55 money...But that'll drain you, what, like 6 grand? Those are expensive, but if you think it is worth it, that is all that really matters. :)
     
  16. the_man12

    the_man12 Amateur Photographer

    Yeah buy an uncleaned one. It's a much better investment.
     
  17. the_man12

    the_man12 Amateur Photographer

  18. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Oh most definitely!
    These are so tough to grade... :)
    There is use of putty on the coins, making AU's look high BU's, and even some coins graded by a TPG have missed it!
    A lot of these coins are also cleaned, or polished, and ANACS has graded most of them... LOL Just joking...
    Always have to be on the lookout when you buy these, especially over the internet, raw or graded :)
     
  19. Morgan1878

    Morgan1878 For A Few Dollars More..

    I did not know this about the 1926...thanks for the info..this forum is great.
     
  20. Morgan1878

    Morgan1878 For A Few Dollars More..

    I had forgotten about this quote by Teddy Roosevelt. He is one of my favorite presidents. Hard not to like a president who set up the National Park system.

    As far as critics of the Indian Head coin, the artist Salvador Dali had a thought about critics in general:

    "Critics are cretins, but they are average cretins."
     
  21. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Thank you 900fine, I'll be sure to look up these books :)
     
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