I would first and foremost state that I am a beginner coin collector interesting in UNC silver bullion coins. I am just about complete with a full set of silver eagles and have a several pandas, austrialian lunar series to date and a few britian britannias. My question is this, I see several non-government mint coins and bars (ie. Sunshine mint, Englehard mint, etc) that are sold (ebay, websites)at basically the same price as a US Silver eagle. Shouldn't these non-government coins sell at a substantially discount to the Silver eagle. I would think these coins would not have the same "collector" value as the Eagle and are strictly sold for silver value therefore why buy them if they are not closer to the silver market rate ?? Am I thinking about this wrong??
They can't sell at a "substantial" discount since even Silver Eagles only sell for spot silver plus a small premium (during the year they are issued). I think the premium on the non-government silver ounces is a little bit smaller though. Libertads and Maple leafs are nice too.
The silver eagles usually trade at a significant premium to most private bars and many of the foreign ones. There are some private bars that are quite scarce and/ or quite desirable so collectors trade these at much higher prices. Physical silver has traded at premiums as great as 20% and discounts as great as 15% over the years. Retail would usually be about 10% above these numbers.
Cladking, When you say "silver has traded at premiums as great as 20% and discounts as great as 15%", are you talking about as compared to market spot prices??
Completing a set is the hallmark of a real collector. Many people just accumulate, just "buy whatever I like" and so on. That, too, is fine. This is a hobby, not a contest. Even so, completion of a set is what a collecting hobby is all about. Congratulations. The price on an auction site is not always the best price for something like this. If you establish a relationship with a local dealer, you will save that seller and yourself the hassles and expenses of shipping and waiting for checks to clear, etc. Not all private bars are created equal. Engelhard is a mulitnational chemicals firm. Also, I have seen more than a few fake Engelhard bars over the years, so you have to be careful. Silvertowne is well-known for its long series of Americana, Christmas, etc. There are other private mints. Once you get out of that narrow circle you don't know what you are buying. For one thing, I ask to have bars and rounds weighed. The rounds and bars of better companies will often weigh more than 31.1 grams and I never buy a "one ounce" bar that weighs under 1 troy ounce. I do have a few of the other kinds of bars and rounds. I call them "celebrations." The ones I like come from Banks, Stock Brokers, and other financial entities that had these bars made for themselves to be distributed to employees, customers, etc.
There are some very good points in this thread. For the collector that truly knows their material, many good deals can be found. Most dealers do not take the time to learn which ingots are rare or have a little extra silver in them. Most buy based on weight only, regardless of the finess of the silver used. Pawn shops are a wonderful source of silver bars. There are a few dozen manufacturers of silver bars and ingots. Do some research, shop around, and you will find good material that you will be proud to own.
Yes. Wholesale prices of physical metals will vary from spot by a wide margin. The most popularly traded physical silver will trade at a premium to the retail price. The popularity of any specific form of silver will vary over the long term. In the early '70's private bars were the popular way to own silver and traded at very large premiums. In the late '70's it was silver bags (especially dollars). In the early '80's it was 1 Oz Ennglehardt bars. In the late '80's it was 100 OZ bars. Since the early '90's it's been silver eagles. It is this rotation which makes it probably unwise to purchase silver at large premiums for a long term holding. If you are collecting the eagles or buying them for short term silver speculation then it's not a factor, but if you want silver as a long term investment then you're better off buying whatever sells at the lowest price. This, too, varies over time but is probably war nickels or silver clad halfs at the current time.
Provident Metals has some decent sales for rounds and bars some times. I have been pleased with their service and if you get on their e-mail list they have some good sales. If you like government issued coins the Canadian Maple is cheaper than the Silver Eagle and though the difference in purity is miniscule they are the purest govt issued coin available (so they say anyways). I have looked at Aydin and they seem very expensive. Good luck.
Some rounds (Engelhard Prospector) and bars (Pamp Suisse) sell at a significant premium over spot due to popularity, etc. whereas others do not. You now may be experiencing higher prices for generic silver because the sellers paid for them when silver spot was higher, and they do not want to lose that much money with the recent drop in silver prices and so premiums are higher. TC
Wnen silver is going down, premiums in general go higher. When silver was working it's way up from $10.00 to $20.00 in 2007/2008 I was paying about $1.50 premium on ASE and about 50 cents on generics. When it slid down from $20.00 to $9.00, I couldn't find an ASE with less than a $5.00 premium, generics carried around a $3.00 premium. The only thing I could find at that time that traded anywhere near spot were industrial shot bags of silver.
Your thinking is way off. There are a few silver bars and rounds that people will pay hundreds or even thousands for. usually because of a combination of rarity and appeal. ASEs while nice are nowhere near the level of some old coke bars, or certain silver strikes, 87 star wars rarities coins, or other prime examples of silver .999 rounds and bars.
