SEGS and Jeffersons

I've always had it in the back of my head (lots of free space!) that SEGS was kind of THE grading company for Jefferson nickels.

I've seen a couple of their slabs recently and they mention such things as "ticks", "Bridges", how many steps and so on. They also put the Variety information on the slab if it's a DDR or whatever.

Any comments on SEGS? I'm still sticking by my belief that if a Jefferson is in a SEGS holder, it's probably more accurately graded than NGC or PCGS could do. That's what's rattling around in my head....

 

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Well, SEGS may be a fine company, but right now, a coin in a SEGS holder will not command the same price as the same coin in a PCGS, NGC, or ANACS holder (in that order). I know that the coin is the same in whatever slab (buy the coin, not the holder, right?) but there's a marketplace perception out there at this time that if the slab is not one of the "Big 3" (some say "Big 2"), then it's just not as marketable or commands a lower premium. That's the reality of it.

Now, as time goes on and more companies get a reputation in slabbing, that situation can change, albeit slowly. Look, if you think you have a great coin, you'll be able to get a good price for it regardless. But it may take some extra work on your part.

 

I'd like to here from some Jefferson experts as far as the accuracy of SEGS grading on these but I agree with fusiafinch that SEGS is pretty much fround upon by many dealers and it is not a holder they are willing to display proudly at shows.

I really hope that someday SEGS can achieve the recognition they deserve.

 

I find that SEGS has a tendency to over grade everything as oppossed to undergrading a coin. I do have severl Jeffersons nickels graded by SEGS that I purchased in a lot of coins. Most are graded MS or PF 70's and no they arent! I have broken open many Segs to put in coin albums for kids. I always use the SEGS first putting an album together for a child as they might not appreciate the gift and end up spending them instead of holding them as a collection. Many of these nickels have bag marks and items on them that as well they may be UMC. but not MS 70 some not 67's. Once in a blue moon you find a SEGS that is on the money and graded right but for me I stick to the big two PCGS & NGC. In fact I rather have a raw coin then one graded by SEGS. IMHO.

 

Paddy, are you sure you're not thinking SGS?

 

nope SEGS

 

I'll try to post more detail about SEGS later - please remind me, but I will say that they are perfered over the others by alot of Jefferson Nickel variety collectors.

Speedy

 

I wish I could add something useful to this thread, but I have never seen a Jefferson Nickel in an SEGS holder, so I really can't. However, I highly doubt that SEGS is on par with NGC much less PCGS with respect to Jefferson Nickels. I base this opinion on other coins that I have seen in SEGS holders.

Regarding the steps, both NGC and PCGS provide information on the label regarding steps. If the steps are at least 5FS, you will see a FS designation. If not, there will not be a designation. NGC & PCGS do not provide information about bridges or ticks, they just give an overall evaluation. With respect to varieties, both NGC and PCGS will notate the variety if the coin is submitted that way. I believe that PCGS actually types out the words Doubled Die Obverse/Reverse whereas NGC uses the abbreviation DDO/DDR but provides the Fivaz-Stanton number or the Variety-Plus number.

 

I'll post a picture tomorrow of a SEGS 1943/2 Jefferson nickel graded AU-55 you'll see what I am talking about....very much over graded IMHO

 

You took the words right out of my mouth!

That being said - I have 2-3 coins in SEGS slabs and all are graded corectly - they also don't seem to give bumps for Key coins.

Speedy

 

SEGS 1943/2 P Jefferson AU-55

As per the Red book AU -About Unc. traces of light wear on high points of design.Half of the luster present. IMHO this coin is over graded at best it's an VF-20 I wish it was a AU-55

 

Paddy,

Those photos are really small, but your grade seems a little harsh. I don't see much loss of detail and there is remaining luster. AU55 seems a stretch but XF45 or AU50 doesn't seem out of the question for me. Note: I reserve the right to change my mind once larger photos are posted.

Paul

 

Hey Paul I wish I could enlarge the pictures so you could see more detail. The rev. shows alot of wear...thro you can still see some of the stepsthe pillars are wore down...you can berely make out any of the door ways inbetween the pillars the far left and right sides of the Monticello show signs of heavy ware. as you stated there is some luster on the Obv. but if you averaged the Rev. & Obv. no way you come up with an AU-55

 

I believe you. We must also consider that once we drop below MS65, my grading skills related to this series are very limited due to lack of experience.

 

Like that don't ya!

 

There is nothing wrong with the way SEGS grades their nickels. IMHO their grading is accurate. The problem here is the general public will not buy a nickel with someone saying it has full steps when they are not crisp, sharp, solid, mark free steps. It was a nice combined try by SEGS and the FSNC.

Here is a link to a coin graded by SEGS
http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-D-5-STEPS-FULL-ULTRA-SUPERB-FS-RARITY-LOOK_W0QQitemZ250332453113QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item3a48fa18f9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Here is what PCGS has to say about a 1960-D without full steps
........................................................MS65....MS66
1960-D..4.......5.......6.......10.......15.......30.......900


Here the key number is $30.00 which is what a 1960-D MS65 Jefferson Nickel is worth according to PCGS. The question has to do with, how serious of a collector are you? SEGS offers a way for you to purchase a coin that demonstrates 5 or 6 steps with nicks, ticks, and bridges in them. The nickel link above may be one of the highest quality nickels for this date if not the highest quality nickel known with 5 steps, but not having PCGS or any other TPG assign the much needed Full Step designation,or allowing you to add it to their registry set are you willing to pay $1,670.00 over grade price?

I believe the answer is no, since over the past few years this coin has been listed on ebay and it is still offered by the original owner. What is interesting, as time passes the ask price has increased. So, in the eyes of the holder who has 25 years of experience with Jefferson Nickels, this coin is a serious coin and one that will compliment any collection.

Pocket_Change you also mentioned: Any comments on SEGS? I'm still sticking by my belief that if a Jefferson is in a SEGS holder, it's probably more accurately graded than NGC or PCGS could do. That's what's rattling around in my head....

Here is my response to this; I do not believe they (SEGS) offers a more accurately graded coin than NGC or PCGS. I do believe what they have done was offer you more information to the grade which is different than grading accurately. As a Jefferson Nickel collector I personally would say that if SEGS, PCGS, and a NGC would grade the same coin, on any given day, all three would assign the same number grade to the coin (so as a Jefferson Nickel collector it is the Big 2 along with SEGS). I am just trying to say that there is a consistency between the three. The difference here is; SEGS allows nicks, ticks, and bridges in the Jefferson nickels steps to assign a Full Step grade to it where the others do not. There is an interesting history to this but it did not take off.

 

Did you look at the AU-55 SEGS I posted? PCGS nor NGC would never of assigned a grade to this coin above a VF-20 I am a Jefferson collector and have two complete collections including all varieties...there 's no way this 1943/2 is an AU-55
Sorry SEGS may atribute coins but does not grade them to the standards of NGC or PCGS. And what sells coins grades that are not only fair but correct.....As a Jefferson collector I don't want nicks ticks or bridges ...if I wanted that I would not grade my coins and just collect them raw. As for grades I have seen many times that all of the TPG'ers do in fact mess up....depending on the day of the week who's grading etc....Just the other day a member posted a 1928 $20 gold note that went from a VF-35 to a 50 ! How can that happen? I just thank the grading gods if by chance I get a good grade out of a coin submitted.

Another case in point I sent into NGC a 1943 /2 unc from a roll of Jeffersons my father put away over 50 years ago. This roll came right from the mint via the Federal Reserve where my dad worked for over 49 years.This coin was perfect...however if came back in a body bag...as cleaned! This coin was never cleaned or saw the light of day from the day it was rolled in 1943 until a year ago. Now you explain to me how any TPG company is 100% right... seems to me if you are a big investor who sends a TPG a 1000 coins your return is most likely to be 75 % MS-70's and 25% MS-69 . Yes I do have issues with TPG's and for those green stickers I'mm nevr buy a coin with a sticker on it...what a JOKE!

 

If I had the time and money a real true test would be send the unc. 1943/2 Jefferson to every TPG service and see how it comes back. I know I have fought with NGC over the cleanning issue. What if PCGS or SEGS or another 3 rd party grader gave it a grade? Now that would make an interesting post! Anyone care to bank roll such a test? As stated in my last post this coin was taken from a sealed mint roll, vault kept for over 50 years from my late fathers colection.