Roma Numismatics, Richard Beale Arrested.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Mat, Mar 6, 2023.

  1. igotchange

    igotchange Active Member

    Is the only solution to create a cut off date in which is legal to possess such artifacts by the public?
    panzerman likes this.
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  3. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Why validate past thefts? It's OK that you stole them because it was a long time ago...

    I realize we do this all the time but it doesn't make it RIGHT. The original hobby protection act required stamping COPY on counterfeit coins created or imported AFTER it became law. Magically, the counterfeit coins you made on Friday were OK, but Monday's production - nope...
  4. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The UNESCO Convention effectively did that in 1970. Implementation, however, has been slow and haphazard.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
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  5. LukeGob

    LukeGob Well-Known Member

    I read about this this morning. Freaking terrible. I've bought coins from Roma. Just disappointed really. I feel privelaged to have such easy access to ancient treasure, to buy & play with as I see fit. Self-imposed responsibility is really the only check. You do your best to do right with the unimportant coins in your own collection & then see someone like this, with access to the best & coolest there is (even if they don't get to keep it, they get to see it, have it for a little bit), pull this crap. For money. And I gave them money. For coins I like but probably won't look at the same again. Disgusting.
  6. igotchange

    igotchange Active Member

    let us not forget the mel fisher story (claims of counterfeiting) for i believe that to have the original relics of the past is better then to not.everything on this planet had previous owners at some it spoils of war or even from loss at a friendly card game.intentional deciept should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law! what is the argument here the existence of the items or the deception of their origin?
  7. Gallienus


    Roma Numismatics has cheated me out of 1,127 pounds sterling for 2 coins I bought from them at auction in 2014. You can read my Google review on the whole situation. They have the coins and they have the money and there's nothing I can do.

    Basically, if they haven't cheated you, you've been lucky.

    After I complained they banned me from their site. They seem to have no pro blem finding rich new suckers to give them money.

    Beale Reply clip redacted.png
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
    sand likes this.
  8. El Cazador

    El Cazador Well-Known Member

    What exactly did you do/not do with those coins 8 years ago?
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  9. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    I've always felt that 20+% buyer's premiums and ridiculous shipping costs of these auction houses were criminal....... But nothing like this! :wacky:
    Gallienus likes this.
  10. Gallienus


    I bought 2 Roman Coins from them at auction. One I particularly care about as it's a superb denarius showing an Astronomical event. Here's the pix:


    Rome harassed me every day for immediate payment: before I even knew I won the lots. Thus I did a wire transfer immediately to pay them.

    Then I called to update my shipping address but they told me they already shipped out the coins to my home address but my house was rented out at the time as I was living in an apt in Brazil.

    The coins never made it and when I called Roma to inquire about them they told me that the coins were returned to them as the British post could not deliver them. We agreed that they would hold the coins until I returned to my permanent address in the US. I had the discussion with Mr. Alex Morley-Smith (no longer w/ Roma) and have some email documentation that Roma told me they had the coins.

    Then a year later I called them and they told me they couldn't find the coins. I talked with the British Post and they told me the window for filing a lost item notice had expired.

    I contacted Roma again and Sir. Richard Beale got so aggressive with me that I found it somewhat amusing that the head of a major auction firm could behave so childishly. I assure you that I was never aggressive with Roma staff.
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  11. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Shame on them!
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  12. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    So... did Roma make you square in the end? Or were you stuck with the loss?
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  13. Gallienus


    Nope, Roma stuck me with the loss and Richard Beale banned me.

    Granted some of the mistakes were mine, but I think the majority were Roma's.
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  14. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    Thanks for the heads up. I've been considering venturing into overseas auctions, but I'll be sure to steer clear of Roma. Even if the transactions went smoothly, it's sounding more and more like the founder is a type of person that I'd rather not support.
    Gallienus likes this.
  15. El Cazador

    El Cazador Well-Known Member

    Amazing denarius, one of the best for the type
    Gallienus likes this.
  16. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    Leaving aside Roma's legal troubles, and with all due respect, shouldn't one reserve judgement before hearing both sides of the story first?
  17. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    The legal troubles are one thing (at a minimum he faked provenance, and maximally he knowingly profited from the sale of a looted coin). While this is deserving of suspicion, I would not base a character judgement solely on this kind of thing. Greed is a powerful motivator to which we are all susceptible to some extent, and I do not know the other circumstances of the situation (there may have been other motivating factors to which I'd be empathetic.... who knows).

    But that in combination with @Gallienus 's accounting of direct experience with the man (see above), leaves me thinking that I'd rather not risk supporting the type of person that he may seem to be. I'm not judging him with any sense of finality, I'm just choosing not to give him my money based on what I currently know.

    In any case, considering the price ranges that I shop within, a boycott on my part isn't going to make a noticeable difference :inpain:.
    Gallienus likes this.
  18. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    Here is my understanding of this issue. Mr. Beale admitted to buying a provenance. However, I'm thinking that, perhaps Mr. Beale didn't know, that the provenance was fake, at the time that Mr. Beale bought the provenance. Then, if I remember correctly, someone later said to Mr. Beale, that the provenance is fake, but perhaps Mr. Beale didn't believe that person. Even now, I haven't seen enough publicly available information, for me to know, if the provenance is fake. I've only seen, that 1 person said, that the provenance is fake. But, perhaps that 1 person is incorrect. It seems to me, that there isn't enough publicly available information, to know for certain.
  19. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

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  20. Gallienus


    A number of prominent numismatists I talked to questioned the ethics of their not coming to an arrangement with me. I've would've been quite happy with a store credit for example.

    In your vein, Roma also auctioned an intact Roman Aes Signatum bronze brick or currency bar. I believe they merely listed the province as "from an old European collection". While not sure, I think these things are quite rare and protected historical artifacts.

    My memory is incomplete here but I always thought that was questionable on their part.

    Also, I recall {but don't have proof} that they were involved in the resale of the Macedonian /Alexander dekadrachms which were illegally recovered off the coast of the Gaza strip. Thus Sir Richard Beale has been on the radar for a long time. Maybe this latest thing was just the tip of the iceberg?
  21. Gallienus


    Thanks, the other coin I did not post as I don't have a picture of it. I somehow suspect that Roma isn't going to provide me with one but I'll ask should I see them at New York. That is, if they ever venture into NY again...
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