Paper Size

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by saltysam-1, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    How tight are the measurements on edge to edge paper dimensions? Every once in awhile, I see bills that are suspect to being trimmed. A nice clean edge always looks better than a ragged one. I have yet to see a grading service note it on a bill. Am I just living a sheltered life on this issue?
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  3. Dave M

    Dave M Francophiliac

    I don't know about grading services, but I've seen auction catalogs list "trimmed margin" on notes before.
  4. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    Unless the margins are oversized to begin with, then PMG and PCGS will note the trim job if it's decided by the graders. Unless there is photographic evidence of the note prior to the trim, it's really up to the graders discretion. Whether the trim will yield a Net/Apparent grade will depend on the severity.

    According to Jason Bradford, President of PCGS - more than 80% of large size notes have been trimmed at some point in their lives. That's a staggering number.

    It's an interesting subject, however. Because many large size notes were cut by hand, uneven and tight margins are quite common, and calling it trimmed is not a science.

    This thread has had some more discussion on the subject:

    Here's some photos of the trim being noted on a holder.


    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  5. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    Thanks for the information and link funkee. The 80% statement was really an eye opener. I guess it goes hand in hand with the cleaning statement on very old U.S. coinage. Your two examples were the first I have seen. I was supprised to see the one note without the apparent grade notation. Evidently trimming doesn't prevent numeric assignment as cleaning does on coins.
  6. lettow

    lettow Senior Member

    My understanding is that the TPGs will only identify a large size note as being trimmed if it enters the design. As Funkee indicated large size notes were originally cut outside the BEP so there is no way of knowing whether a large size note was trimmed last year or early last century.
  7. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    I now can see the design intrusion on both notes that funkee posted. The middle of the left edge on the PCGS graded note and the bottom right of the PMG note. This is something to look for when buying ungraded notes. I see this on fractional currency and Confederate currency as well. I knew those two were cut by hand, I didn't know that about all the large sized notes though.
  8. harris498

    harris498 Accumulator

    I have an '83 $20 GC that came back VF-30 Apparent with 'Edge Trimming' as comment. The design is in tact, and I can't detect with certainty where the trim would have been. Oh well.
  9. I thought that the BEP had minimum dimension measurements set up for currency, I remember seeing them once but I dont remember where. I marked them down as interesting currency "notes" and just found my "notes". If this is correct it should be an easy way to check if a note has been cut.
    The measurements were 7 3/8 Long X 3 1/8 Wide for Large Size and for Small Size it was 6 1/8 Long X 2 5/8 Wide. I have no idea how close the BEP stays within theses measurements, I'm sure like most things they must have a minimum - maxim dimension on currency, any one know what it may be ?.
    Bill Collector
  10. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    A lot of early bills were cut by hand. And a lot were cut outside of the BEP. Sheets were distributed uncut to banks, and signed and cut there.

    Try cutting a stack of pages with a paper cutter. Excluding printing alignment, Some sheets may not line up properly to begin with. Then the sheets will also shift under the pressure of a blade while being cut - especially if that blade is dull.
  11. funkee,
    I understand all that, but BEP minimum dimensions are just that, minimum dimensions that the notes should be cut to no matter who cuts them. I've seen Large Size notes that look trimmed but it was because of print alignment that they looked trimmed, they still measure out ok.
    Lets say that a note has a tight margin at the top, or any side for that matter, now someone wants to make the margins look even all the way around the note, at least on the front of the note, only the cutter will know what the back will look like ?, most times you cant have it both ways, anyway they do a very nice job of trimming, and it may look nicer but if it wont measure out to minimum dimensions I try an stay away from a note like that. I figurer that if I have doubts about it others will also.
    Bill Collector
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