Old Irish/Celtic Coin

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by sofrosune, Sep 1, 2005.

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  1. sofrosune

    sofrosune Junior Member

    I found a coin in a collection given to me by my grandmother years ago that I've just started going through. I find it very interesting but haven't the slightest idea on how to find out specifics on it. From the little research I have done, it seems to be an old Irish or Celtic coin, possibly hammered silver (???). Any help on it would be great. I've posted some pics of it, let me know if anyone has clues.
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    sofrosune, Sep 1, 2005
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Afraid I can't offer any help on this, but there are a couple of other members who will undoubtably stop by in the next day or so that are much more familiar with these than I am. And they should be able to offer some info.

    Meanwhile I'm going to move this post over the World Coin Forum - it will get better response there ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 1, 2005
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  4. ph34rm3

    ph34rm3 New Member

    I have no idea
     
    ph34rm3, Sep 2, 2005
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  5. Aidan Work

    Aidan Work New Member

    For a start,this is not from Ireland,nor is it a Celtic coin.It looks like it comes from one of the German-speaking states.Which one it is,I don't know.

    Aidan.
     
    Aidan Work, Sep 3, 2005
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  6. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    I have to think it might be French because it looks like the word ROUX appers on the obverse.This means red or redhead in french,possibly referring to the issuing person.
    Also on the revese are the letters *OUT also a french word ending,not Latin.
    There appears to be the name JOH (Johannes) at 8 O'clock on the reverseand maybe MENE (T?) or MONE (T?) at the top.
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 3, 2005
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  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's definitely not French - the coat's of arms are incorrect.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 3, 2005
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  8. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    Like I said,definitely not French :))
    You think it's German GD?
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  9. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    In fact,looking at it closer,what I thought was ROUX is probably R DUX,a Duchy or Duke,so probably German,Austrian.
    Any thoughts Sylvester?
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree about the RDVX - but I can't make out enough of the rest of the legend to determine origin. I spent 3 hours yesterday trying to identify this coin - obviously looking in all the wrong places :rolleyes:

    Not that many nations or city states used the lion rampant on the coat of arms so I was focusing on that thinking it possibly had UK or the Netherlands as an origin. No luck :( Using one of the other shields as a clue - the simple cross - may be more helpful. Going to try in that direction today.

    I know when this coin is finally identified I'm going to be kicking myself for not seeing it sooner :rolleyes:
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 4, 2005
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  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    sofrosune - can you tell us the approximate size of the coin ? I'm guessing it about 22mm. The weight would be of help also - again I'm guessing approx 3.4 - 3.5 grams.

    I'm nearly convinced it is a goldgulden from one of the German city states or bishoprics. There are several others with similar designs of St. John or St. Peter on the obverse and the trefoil with arms on the reverse - but none of them listed in my books with pictures match this coin. The only thing I can assume is that it is one of the ones not pictured.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 4, 2005
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  12. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    I looked up goldgugens and I think you're right about the similarities with this coin,with the obvious exception that it isn't gold.Check out the reverse on this one!
     

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    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  13. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    oops...here's a bigger view.
     

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    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  14. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    OK..I found it...the inscription is LVDWIC C P R DVX B / MONE NOVA BACH...what I thought were T's are actually A's.It doesn't look like a gold coin but i guess it must be?
     

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    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm not so sure that the OP's coin is not gold. It may not be - but the thickness of the coin leads me to think it is. Other than bracteates I know of no silver coins that thin. And I don't think this is a bracteate. Could be wrong on that though.
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 4, 2005
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  16. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    Pfalz
    Ludwig III 1410-36
    goldgulden (22 mm), no date
    St. Peter , arms / 4 arms in trilobe
    Bacherach mint

    LVDWIC C P R DVX B / MONE NOVA BACH THANKS JDJMSP!!
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Mikjo0 - do you have a pic of the obverse ? The reverse seems a match. Where did you find it ?
     
    GDJMSP, Sep 4, 2005
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  18. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  19. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    The obverse is also a match....and now that I know what the inscription is,I can clearly see the name LVDWIG on the left.
     

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    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  20. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    sorry...LVDWIC...
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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  21. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    SOFROSUNE'S picture of the obverse is upside down tho..lol
     
    Mikjo0, Sep 4, 2005
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