Numismatic Ethics

I have read the posts where someone brings in old coins to a bank for a deposit and the teller sweeps them up for himself with out telling the depositor what they really have. Witholding information like that is akin to robbery or at the least ripping the person off. Many times people have asked me if they should just deposit their old coins? I emphatically tell them NO and that I would have the apraised. When evaluating a coin collection that a friend had inherited from his father I found 2 key dates, a 1916 quarter and a 1916-D Mercury Dime both in VG condition. Could I have cherry picked them and replaced them with different dates and not told my friend, sure, but that would that say about me as a person? I think it is very unethical to let people deposit valuable coins and not tell them about it, especially if you are a numismatist and no matter what your day job is!

 

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i agree to a point. If it were me, i would say something IF i knew what was being deposited was worth more then face. I have seen first hand however, that most of the time, the folks will say they dont care, and might say somethign to the effect that they are only worth face to them anyway. As i said, IF it were me i would still say something, and IF the person then still wants to deposit them, great for me.

That is what I would do. I hold no grudges, hate or shame for anyone else on this forum who might act differently. I know alot of the folks here, and even though some might act differently, i doubt any of them would do so maliciously! For the most part, CoinTalk is full of good folks

 

You are correct that taking advantage of someone who doesn't know they are depositing coins worth more than face is the same as theft. They at least deserve a warning before they act.

Buying coins at bargain prices from dealers or from EBAY is a different story since these people are in the business of selling coins above face value. Then it becomes a business deal where the seller is holding him/herself out as knowledgeable.

 

But most sellers on Ebay say they know "nothing about coins" - should you let them know?

It would be nice if the teller knew what was being deposited and the teller knew it was worth more for silver(or type of coin) and informed the customer. That would be nice - not always possible, but nice.

 

Personally, a bank is a bank. If someone deposits coins that have a value higher than face value, that's your find. There's a number of scenario's that could fit this profile, but keep banking to banking and keep coin collecting to the coin collectors. It's very different from finding a gold chain in the ocean, someone knows they lost it, you find it and knowing that a person lost it and is looking for it or you know who lost it and don't say something. That's wrong. That's stealing. But someone dumps collectables at the bank and doesn't know their value . . . then good for you. At best, you might say something like "Nice coins," and see the reaction. If none? then keep 'em, set 'em on the side and buy 'em from the bank. This is NOT stealing.

Otherwise you might use this scenario, suppose someone inherits a collection from their grandparents and there's a 1914D or 09SVDB in their collection and you know the true value of the coins but the seller doesn't. He just wants the $$$. Do you tell them that they have to raise their price or you won't buy the coins from them? No, you buy the collection for what he wants for it and leave. It's your good fortune that you found the buy before someone else. This too is not stealing!

 

I'd have to agree on this point. A bank is a bank. Their purpose and business is for depository of legal tender funds. If somebody deposits $50 in IHCs, then they will have $50 accounted to their funds. IHCs are legal tender. That means you can spend them on face value for debts. A bank does not necessarily by law have to accept any legal tender for deposit, but they will usually accept any and all legal tender, including foreign legal tender.

Because the bank teller does not tell the customer that they coins may possibly have a worth more than their value, it is not the job of the bank teller to notify the depositor of this fact, irregardless of their knowledge in numismatics. Not only that, but the bank corporation is paying that teller to do their job of processing credits and debits to customers accounts...not performing numismatic appraisals. So, in all actuality, ethically speaking, it is unethical for the bank teller to tell the customer the worth of the coins (appraising) because they are then stealing from their employer by claiming wage hours from their employer for personal time.

Your scenario has too many holes in it to be truthful in your last statement that it's not stealing. Did the person ask you for an appraisal? Did the person indicate that he was ignorant of the items he had and did not know the value thereof? Did the person publicly place the items on sale, or did the person selling make the approach privately under the understanding that the person they were going to was knowledgeable and able to give a "fair price"? Did the person walk into a coin dealer and say they wanted no less than $X and asked what the dealer would give for them (akin to appraisal)?

In each scenario, the fact of whether the person would be ripped off changes. Even the worth of a coin is subjective, and not absolute. This is a case in which "riht" and "wrong"...ethics...becomes subjective, or dependent upon the scenario.

 

I am a bit torn but I must admit, if I worked at a bank and someone wanted to deposit a coin that had worth over face value...I dont think I would inform them of this as a teller. If someone came to me as a person and collector outside my job and ASKED me...I would without doubt tell them. I like to think of myself as very much willing to help people who admit they need it as asking for help is a sign of taking personal responsibility... but I have to say, people NEED to take responsibility. In the end, it isnt hurting them as they never knew they had it.

I also dont think this means I am lacking in morals...because I am not

 

Ethics and numismatics are not often found together.

 

Honestly when it comes down to it, its each persons job to see that they are educated. Whether it be buying a house and researching which type of financing you need, to buying a car, to depositing funds laying around your house. Its your job to figure it out.

 

Guess it all depends on if you believe in absolute truth - and then if you abide by it.

 

Or, we could help each other out. We can't all be experts in all fields.

 

Do unto others, as you want done unto you, or something like that. IMHO, if I was a teller and something like what is being described happened, and I saw the roll before hand, I would atleast attempt at telling the person. Then you give them the choice of what they want to do. But, that's just me, and my opinion.

Phoenix

 

It really depends. It depends on the knowledge level of each party to a transaction.

1- A widow brings a box of coins to a coin dealer and asks how much they are worth. The dealer spots an '09-S VDB and a '16-D Mercury among the other common coins. It is obvious that the widow does not know she has some valuable coins. He offers her melt value for the lot.

2- A dealer looks over another dealer's coins at a show. He spots a super rare VAM that is offered as a common coin. He buys the valuable coin for a small fraction of its worth.

In each example a dealer buys coins for a fraction of their true value. But in the first example the dealer has knowledge the seller does not have. The seller expects the dealer to be honest and offer a fair price for her coins. In my opinion it is unethical for this dealer to take advantage of the sellers lack of knowledge and expertise.

In the second example the seller was a dealer and should be expected to know what he is selling. In my opinion it is not unethical for another dealer to cherrypick this dealer.

 

I totally agree. :thumb:

Phoenix

 

No, we can't be experts all the time. That is why sometimes we hire people to be the expert for us, to help us out.

 

I personally know a coin dealer that will buy your silver at just under melt, without looking at it, just by weight, but not before he offers to sell you a redbook, cheap, so you can see if you have anything worth taking out of the scrap pile and selling. He does not have the time to sort through your coins for you, if you want to sell them you do, if you want to research then sell them you may. Either way he will offer you a fair price, but you can only maximize what you get if you are willing to do the research.

 

I guess, but I'd go broke if I had to hire someone to advise me on everything I'm not proficient in. I've had a lot of people mentor me throughout my life, guiding me in the right direction without asking to be compensated for it. Maybe that's where I picked it up from.

To each his own.

 

I was up in the air about this issue until you reminded me of that simple advice.

I would absolutely want to be told if I was selling something for far less than it was worth.

 

Remember the question is not about selling coins...its about turning in coins to the bank and you are the teller....if someone comes and wants to sell coins...I can say without doubt I will tell the person exactly how much the coins are worth...and probably buy them much closer to that worth than any dealer (if I buy).

 

Either way, there is no question that I would want to be told that I was cashing in a coin for $.50 that was worth a lot more.

And there's no question that anyone would want to be told that.