NGC recently entered a nolo contendere in a lawsuit that claimed it issued ''First stike'' coins knowingly trying to deceive buyers. Since only the mint can designate such titles; do you think NGC knew what they were doing? If you answer yes; do you think NGC is trustworthy?
Yes and No, not trustworthy... But since it's already been discussed on 'other forums' there is no need to bring it up here again. Funny how the PCGS forum has vanished too... LOL Take Care Ben
Quite a few of the links on the PCGS home page are down, including About PCGS, Contact PCGS, and Customer Service. Others, including the registry, are still working fine. Looks like Peter isn't the only webmaster with server problems!
Ha Ben. As you know, I am not a big fan of TPGs. And anything..ANYTHING that gets them bad press always makes my day.
The CU board is not down. PCGS isn't going anywhere. Plus, people who hate TPG's don't remember how bad is was when you had to trust dealers to tell a collector the grade of a coin. It was much more inconsistant then, then it is now.
Now you have to trust TPGs. There's not that much difference. If you have been going to a dealer for many years; why wouldnt you trust him? before I moved from NY, I went to the same dealer on Park Ave. for eight years. Never saw his name in the paper involving a lawsuit for deceptive practices.
oh boy talk about ancient history first strike and early release were just some labels PCGS and NGC came up with to help sell TV coins. Remember, the coin vault paid them truckloads of $$$$ to slab up those truckloads of MS69-70 moderns. AFAIK, they are both still slabbing early release early in the year on many coins and for some reason thats ok still. Read the Mint's blurb on those coins, it seems they all go into a pile until they are sold, then they are dated so there is no way to know if your coin was one of the first 100 on the dies or the 4000th strike I still think it was stupid to sue them for that. Its just marketing. People who are already overpaying for Mint products feel better if they think their coin is "special", First Strike was feeding into that.
If your pharmacy labeled generic medication as "super pure, extra potent, laboratory tested" if it weren't and charged a higher price, would you consider that to be "just some labels"? They'd end up behind bars. There's no disagreement that the "First Strike" or "Early Release" coins are not special in any way. Therefore, the designation is deceptive. Deceptive marketing is unethical and illegal. Unfortunately there are enough collector/flippers who buy into this to keep people buying and selling sealed cardboard boxes at a premium without even opening them to see what's inside. What I don't understand is why PCGS seems to be getting a free pass while NGC got called on it.
Dreamer. I thinks its because PGCS is calling them ''Early Release''. Which are just bullion coins sent to dealers and others before the general public. They have no mint mark. I could be wrong. And BTW Spock. I have never seen anything bad written about BENT. I think BENT is the exception. I GET BENT!
It's not about trusting a dealer you know or a TPG, it's about experience. One of my close friends who collects coins only allows two people buy coins for his collection, me and a dealer in Tennessee. It's been that way for years. He bought a BU 1903-O and an 1885-CC from the dealer in TN. The coins looked MS63/64 IMO, but the 03-O's luster didn't look normal so I blaimed that fact on New Orleans Mint's "strike". Anyway, I didn't examine the coins closely, but in hand they where nice. My friend decided to have them sent to PCGS, and sadly the 03-0 came back "altered surface", and the 1885-CC came back cleaned (because of a barely perceptible rub mark on the obverse). So, this is an example of honest mistakes by people whom my friend trust. I said all of that to say this: TPGS may be off a point or two at times (some just over-grade for profit purposes), but authentications, protection, and condition of a coins surface is the most important aspect of their service.
No doubt about getting to know dealers. I do own a few slabs and generally trust the biggies for grading "non gimmick" coins. First Strike was always a gimmick to me. I have been frequenting two local shops for at least 15 years and an online dealer for 10. I loaned one dealer my BEST Two Cent set just so he could show it to customers. Trust works both ways. One used to have "bargain bins" in his case. I'd ask for one, like Barber Halves, for example, and he'd hand me the box and go to his back room to do work. Yep, leave me there wih hundreds of dollars in coins and not bat an eye. Why? because he knows I would NEVER pocket one. He respects me and I respect him. The other dealer has so much stuff he doesn't even know all of what he has. I organized STACKS of blue Whitmans for him one day. Took me hours. Nicer coins I pulled out and put in 2x2s for him. Lots of semi-key Lincolns. Trust thing again. What did I get? Well, he bought me lunch and coins I was interested in I set aside. He likes to sell in bulk with these books so I kept a few I was interested in handy. h Bougt a folder that had 17 Buffaloes for $17 that day. That book had a 19-D in F12 and a real nice 31-S. Sorting the books was not work to me and buying nice coins cheap wasn't either.
Right on Clembo. I'm pretty sure NGC wouldnt buy you lunch. Or even allow you to ''hang around''. No doubt some TPGs bring a higher price for a coin.
If I'm not mistaken, "Early Releases" is NGC's replacement for "First Strikes". They are coins that were shipped early from the mint, but not different in any way; i.e. not necessarily minted earlier. I don't believe any of the services give bullion coins a special designation. PCGS is still using "First Strikes" for a number of different series, including First Spouse gold coins. Check listings on ebay and you'll see the premium being charged for them or for mint-sealed boxes that are "First Strike" eligible.
