new 3-legger, grade opinions please

I always wanted one of these. Got this on the bay at a price I could afford. All the tiny scratches have me concerned though, as does the body of the buffalo - just a little too "shiny". Do people harshly clean coins made of nickel? I compared it to a sockful of buffalo my dad put away 40 years ago and those aren't so "scratchy". Any thoughts on grade?

 

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I'm no grader, but hey - it's missing a leg!!!!

<sorry, couldn't resist...>

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you just bought a raw 3 legged buffalo on E-bay, then grade is the least important problem you have. The first problem is authenticity. To put it another way, I wouldn't buy a raw key date coin on E-Bay with your money.

My advice is send it to PCGS and hope it comes back marked genuine. Then you will know you have a cleaned authentic 3 legged buffalo. Best of luck!

 

Yeah these things are faked like crazy.

 

It is hard to see, but,
I think (just a thought) that I can see the diagnostic 'drips' of the genuine piece.

but, what do I know, I wear glasses.

 

I hate to be the bearer of what I believe is bad news here. I think its altered.

The rear leg is to strong on this nickel, the 37D three leg has a weak rear leg. The placement of the word Unum is off in comparison to the CA of America, The three dots that Frank eluded to can not be seen, at least here when I blow the picture up. I see a horizontal mark where the missing leg should be. The placement of the P in Pluribus is in the correct position based on the back of the buffalo.

But I could be wrong. But if it were me..... Back it goes. Here is a picture of my Slabbed 3 legged to compare with. Mine came back as a VF20.

 

I think ANY 3 legged is worth certification! As a buffalo lover, and one that may never afford to get a 3 leg, I am so jealous! :bow::bow::bow:

 

Considering there are Ebay'rs like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1937d-3legged-buffalo-nickel_W0QQitemZ270340127861

That get them here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380080352507

Then sell them on Ebay with an authenticity disclaimer, I'd suspect yours is no different. You can't buy that one raw any longer, thanks to our friends in China.

Ribbit

Ps: Will you post the link to the auction so we can investigate to see if the seller is known to purchase counterfeits from China, or PM me with it?

 

Yeah.....a "mint state lustrus rare coin" in a cheap flip! Plus a NO RETURN clause. No red flags there! :loud:

I'm not saying yours is a fake mill rat, and no one here can say that 100% without seeing it in person. (geez, I know that's going to **** someone off) Send it in! Better safe than sorry. :high5:

 

If you had EVER wondered about grading consistency among the major TPGs, check this out.
Compare my VF-30 3-leg with Jim M's VF-20.

 

Kanga, can you post the obverse for your vf20?

 

The VF-20 isn't mine.
It's Jim M's.
Mine's the VF-30.

And with the white insert in the slab his was graded by a different TPG (NGC?)

 

Actually its a net grade from ANACS . The holder says Scratched, Cleaned

 

Ahhhhhh, now things make sense.
Still, a keeper.

 

Hello mill rat41,

I agree with what everyone is telling you about the high likelihood of your getting a counterfeit raw 3-legger. First see what your return policy is & hopefully you can get a third party authentication before committing to the sale. Second, you probably have some normal 1937-D nickels in your collection. Compare your 3-leg to some normal 1937-D examples. The 3-leg should have some scratchiness behind the Indian’s neck. The 3-leg should have the E PLURIBUS UNIM spaced a little higher off the back of the buffalo (This is easy to see when comparing to a normal 1937-D). The 3-leg buffalo should also have a ratty rear leg and look like it is peeing a little. These are diagnostics of a genuine 3-leg. These diagnostics are excellent for detecting an altered 1937-D 4-leg coin. Counterfeiters are making really deceptive products today so you really should get a 3rd party opinion.

Very best regards,
collect89

P.S. Your 3-leg should differ from the normal examples as I described above. If the design is different in some other way, or the surfaces appear different (just looks wrong) then it is quite possibly a counterfeit coin.

 

Wow, a "stampede" of responses. I was planning on sending it in for authentication. Comparing to a regular 1937D: the e pluribus unum does appear to be slightly higher off the back (and I mean SLIGHTLY higher), on the 3 legs I do see a little hazy area behind the neck (roughly on a diagonal line from the top of the one in the date to the 5 o'clock postion of the end of the larger feather of the indian), the groin of the 3 leg appears to be longer and pointier than that of the regular, the rear leg does look quite ratty compared to the regular.

One other thing that seems different is the length of the large feather. One the 3 leg it seems shorter than on that of the regular. Also,the feather on the back of the head (the one that only the bottom tip shows behind the neck) seems smaller than on the regular nickel. These differences might be because my regular has less wear than the 3 leg.

I stacked the two on top of each other and the sizes match exactly. Comparing the rims, they are the same thickness. Gonna get someone with more experience to take a look at it tommorrow.

Handsometoad you have a pm.

 

I am not an expert of 1937-D "Three Legged" Buffalo Nickels by any means but I really can't see anything that would definitely indicate that it is an altered (normal) 1937-D Nickel! If you check the many Genuine 1937-D "Three Legged" Buffalo Nickels on the web, the word "UNUM" is really not wrong in relation to the "CA" in AMERICA and is not really too far off the Buffalo's back. The rear most leg, yes, is stronger than most Genuine "Three Legged" Nickels seen but most of the ones seen and authenticated, are in fact very LDS specimens and the Die was suffering from excessive Die Fatigue. Also like Treashunt, I am pretty sure that I can see the so-called "peeing stream" Die Markers on the Reverse.

IMHO, the OP's coin is from an earlier Die Stage than many of the Genuine "Three Legged" specimens that are ever seen! There appears to be some slight damage around the "CA" of AMERICA which I think accounts for "UNUM" appearing off in relation to them. Also, many of the actual Genuine "Three Legged" Nickels have "UNUM" touching or almost touching the Buffalo's back as they are from later Die Stages and this specific area of the Buffalo's back (the incuse detail in the Die) has worn away and migrated towards "UNUM" due to polishing (repairs) and Die Fatigue.

Now that said, I would recommend that the OP not take my word as Gospel that the coin is a Genuine 1937-D "Three Legged" Buffalo Nickel and that the OP should have it examined by a knowledgeable Coin Dealer or send it in to a TPG for certification, grading and slabbing.

I don't know if it is any better but I edited the picture of the Reverse of the OP's coin and have attached it below!


Frank

 

Good news and bad. I took the coin to a local shop with 3 knowledgeable guys working there. All agreed that the coin was a genuine 3 leg, but with harshly cleaned surfaces. I am going to try to return it and save some more money for a problem free example. If the seller won't take a return, what is a fair price for a cleaned 3 leg in this condition?

 

The coin looks F to me.

 

p.s. while I would be concerned it is fake (because there are so many of them out there), I see nothing from the small photos to suggest that it is.