Morgan Toning Vs. Peace Toning

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Bonedigger, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    I seem to recall reading (Travers, I think) someplace that they tone differently because of their chemical makup. Since they both consist of 10% Cu and 90% Ag I don't see how they can tone differently. What's the word on the streets :D

    Bone
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Since they are both made of the same alloy - I doubt it has anything to do with chemical makeup. I have always attributed it to the fact that Morgans have a different surface finish than Peace dollars. The surface of a Peace dollar is smoother than that of a Morgan which is what makes the Morgan appear more lustrous - it really isn't, it's just a different luster.

    The luster is the result of the flow lines on the surface of the coin. And if you examine a Peace and a Morgan under high magnification you will see the surface of the Morgan is rougher than that of the Peace. I attribute this to the die preparation and improvements in technology. I believe that the surface of the dies ( which is what creates the flow lines ) for the Peace were polished smoother than the Morgan.

    For example - a simple illustration I have used before to demonstrate luster - this is what the surface of a Morgan looks like -

    /\/\/\/\/\/\

    This is what the surface of a Peace looks like -

    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

    Because the flow lines on a Morgan are deeper than the flow lines on a Peace it exposes more surface area of the silver to the air. Thus the surface of a Morgan tones more readily and deeper than a Peace does. Anyway - that's my simple explanation for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  4. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I've noticed that the morgans I have tone darker than the peace dollars. I just thought it was because they are older.
     
  5. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member


    Dang... Have you ever thought about doing this FULL TIME for a living :)

    Thanks
    B
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    Nahhhhh - I got a day job already. This I do for fun ;)
     
  7. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    Doug - Great explanation

    All of that said - what happened when they released the Franklin and Kennedy 90% silver half? Did they forget all of those technology improvements and die prep changes (not that I mind)?

    I am not trying to argue the point or disagree (because it sounds reasonable) but I have seen some really nicely toned Franklin's and Kennedy's.

    I guess I will have to put that new microscope to work.?.
     
  8. DJCoinz

    DJCoinz Majored in Morganology

    My thoughts exactly. Great post GD. :thumb:
     
  9. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    Do I have some great pictures to post! These will be for people that have high speed connections initially. It is taking a bit to get them uploaded but as soon as they are I will post. Talk about all over the board with surface finishes...
     
  10. vipergts2

    vipergts2 Jester in hobby of kings

    I am glad this topic came up. I always wondered why the luster on the Morgan and peace dollars were different. For the record I prefer the luster on the morgans better.
     
  11. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    OK, the files are about 3 meg so it may/will take a bit to open - if you have the band-width be patient as it's worth it. These started as 15 meg BMP files that I converted to JPG.

    These coins are the best I have and I selected areas that would have the least amount of wear and tear to try and get metal that had not been altered too much.

    All are at the same power - 90X and all shot through the air-tites.

    I rechecked the focus on the Franklin and it is clear down to the open fields.

    You have to look at the 2007 Unc Eagle - wow and cool!

    The 42 Liberty and Kennedy really surprised me!!! I will have to grab a better 64 Business strike Kennedy for tomorrow.

    Tell me what you think! Any comments on the 2007 will also be appreciated!

    BTW - I am glad that 24 is toned so nicely - wow - it hides a lot!!!

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/GroupPhoto.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1898MorganLeftofM.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1923PeaceLeftofR.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1924PeaceRightofR.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1942LibertyHalfRightofY.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1960FranklinProofLeftofE.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1964KennedyProofLeftofI.jpg

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/2007EagleWUnc1stOin2007.jpg
     
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well, now you can see with your own eyes what I was trying to explain about the differences in the surface of the coins. Much better job than my poor illustrations :thumb:
     
  13. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    Pretty interesting differences. Great photos.
     
  14. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    Your explanation was very good and it made sense. The interesting part was to look at the newer coins (40s - 60's) and see how they reverted back to a rougher surface. It probably helps to explain the toning that shows up in the newer coins.

    I brought in those business strike Kennedy's and a circulated Franklin to look at today. I'll try to post pictures later.

    Very neat visual for sure...
     
  15. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter


    Thanks Cloudsweeper99 - Sometimes pictures tell quite a story!
     
  16. Phoenix21

    Phoenix21 *The King Of Jokes*


    Wow. :thumb: Man, heck with only getting a job, have you ever considered writing a book? :D Man, you're good. :thumb:

    Phoenix :cool:
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Thanks for the kind words, but no thanks. I've written a book, lots of short stories, lots of poetry and quite a few articles. I write because I enjoy it and to help people - not to make money. I make enough money already. Even when someone offers to pay me to write - I say no, I'll write for free.

    For me, that's just how it is.
     
  18. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    Okay - these are circulated or business strike coins.

    1st is a well circulated 63 Franklin. http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1963DFranklinabovedate.jpg

    2nd is a Business Strike 64 Kennedy. This one has a small surface issue in front of his chin where a layer is pealing a bit.
    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1964KennedyChin1.jpg

    3rd is a 68 Kennedy that has seen a little circulation but is in pretty good shape. http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/1968KennedyDRightofI.jpg

    Here is the group shot. http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee123/USS656/126_2630.jpg

    It is interesting to see how these surfaces very from coin to coin.

    Best Regards,

    Darryl
     
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