Featured Modern counterfeit world coins... train your eyes, get your game up

You guys may be getting tired of my posting about modern fakes and their ever improving quality... well, too bad. I will keep posting about them even if it helps one person for every 100 that it annoys.

Here is a pretty good sample of some of the most common fakes you will see going around now-a-days. Some are pretty easy to detect, but some are very convincing even in hand to experienced collectors.

I will use this thread as a running list and will continue to update it with more examples as I find them.

Take the time or don't, your choice. But if you buy any of the types of coins you see in this thread, you best get very well acquainted with them. And don't be ignorant about slabs either, lots of the higher end ones you will see here have made it into real NGC and PCGS slabs. Also, they are constantly adding more types to their repertoire. I will do my best to keep up, but I am just one man with limited time for detective work.

Make no mistake... ALL of these coins are fake.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1833-Greece...7235896?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c489b84b8

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1829-German...5662137?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48838139

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1833-German...5672366?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4883a92e

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1843-German...5673234?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4883ac92

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1901-German-5-Mark-Coin-/121475674457?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4883b159

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1834-German...5676563?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4883b993

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1739-Mexico...5911570?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48874f92

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1744-Mexico...5912052?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48875174

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1878-Mexico-8-R-Coin-/121475912864?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c488754a0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1878-Russia...5914314?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48875a4a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1901-Russia...5914770?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48875c12

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-Russia...5915423?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48875e9f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1817-Russia...5915928?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48876098

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russia-Spit...5925110?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48878476

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1876-Switze...5992105?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48888a29

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1854-Denmar...5996940?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48889d0c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-G-B-Ho...6002560?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4888b300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1812-UK-Gre...6006534?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4888c286

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-Kiang...6014621?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4888e21d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Italy-2-L-Silver-Coin-/121476040469?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48894715

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1831-Italy-Silver-Coin-/121476057180?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4889885c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Kiau-C...6061266?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c48899852

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Y-r-23-Japa...5998781?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item1c4888a43d


And as an aside, remember this little thread here:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/is-this-ebay-seller-problematic.254173/

This was a troll thread by someone associated with the accounts selling these coins. They had private messaged me prior, and me being foolish and believing this was a legitimate confused buyer, told them some of their tactics and a list of current eBay id's. This person used that information for this thread and I have no doubt it was meant as a test of how deceiving their methods really are.

In short... if someone posts a fake that is a good, convincing modern fake. Tell them what it is, but don't go into detail as to why it is what it is. You will only be helping the counterfeiters better their craft.

Any hate mail, please use PM. Thanks.

 

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in the UK the is a huge problem with fake £1 pieces, or though most are of poor quality the forgers seem to be getting better at their craft.

 

as long as their just scrap value pricing, thats fine, buyer beware, should no your product anyways !!!!!

 

Fakes round two, including a convincing Canadian 1881 50 cent piece:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-50-C...6112?pt=US_Canadian_Coins&hash=item19f62de840

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1913-Russia...4073572?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6292364

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1892-Russia...4069357?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f62912ed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1837-Russia...4079975?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6293c67

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russia-Spit...4075533?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6292b0d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1859-Switze...4086048?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6295420

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1839-Denmar...4092406?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6296cf6

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1797-Austra...4096698?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6297dba

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1853-UK-Sil...4102960?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6299630

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Y-r-45-Japa...4104908?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6299dcc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1866-Hong-K...4107711?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f629a8bf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1903-Malays...4365591?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f62d9817

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1903-Malays...4365591?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f62d9817

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1742-Mexico...4371181?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f62daded

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1840-German...4584527?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f630ef4f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1871-German...4585350?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f630f286

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1840-German...4586277?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f630f625

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1833-German...4587130?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f630f97a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1865-German...4588247?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f630fdd7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1830-German...4589062?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6310106

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1888-German...4590168?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6310558

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1901-German...4590784?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f63107c0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1831-German...4591581?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6310add

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1895-China-...4597696?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f63122c0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1898-China-...4609132?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6314f6c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/China-Sinki...4621602?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6318022

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1914-China-...4622742?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f6318496

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-Hong-K...4108594?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item19f629ac32

 

To add to my previous answer recently I was at a carboot fair in the English Midlands, and a seller was displaying what was an obvious display of fake King George Vl Crown five shilling pieces at a very low price. In a very tactful and polite way I asked the seller if the coins were genuine, he looked at me and said that he wasn't sure. The lesson here is to always be alert when something looks to good to be true.

 

The person you dealt with lied to your face, those are the worst kind.

 

The only way to deal with this is to flood the market with lots of counterfeit. Telling people that they have counterfeit coins is no longer effective nor is policing the internet.

Sure it sounds counter intuitive but when people look at the catalog value of let's say more than 500 dollars and think they have a bargain; they will be forced to think twice if there's hoards of them available at once.

You have to give credits to the smart counterfeiters out there to not flood the market at once so that they can maximize their profit.

 

True, they don't flood it too much. But one look in completed items for many of the coins they sell will show multiple nearly identical looking pieces sold in the past few months, most well below market value.

 

More counterfeits as usual

http://www.ebay.com/sch/will-mut/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3692

 

First of all, thank you for making this thread. Second, you talked about being contacted by someone testing you about fakes, but these threads would be just as useful to some degree. Guess that can't be helped. Lastly, Could you explain the links you are sharing in this thread, are all of the coins at these links fakes or are you warning about specific sellers? Thanks.

 

This can be a thorny issue - these sellers are intelligent crooks. They can read forums and they don't need to even understand English. They can use online translator programs and get a rough idea of what's going on.

When you discuss what's wrong and give "general" ideas of how to avoid counterfeits - they use this as a cheap and free feedback. Easy solutions such as "bad details", "magnetic", "weight test", "seller in China" no longer apply. This only worked in early 2000s. Fast forward 2014 - this is another world.

Some sellers would blend genuine coins into their sales. Some would even sell several hundred cheap goods to have good feedback before attempting to sell more pricy counterfeits. As for the cost of producing one counterfeit coin - I believe it's well under the 10 to 20 cent mark. It's time to smarten up and make the lives of counterfeiters hard enough to give up. No point talking about getting authorities to police counterfeits - they don't even have the expertise and resources to do so. The only way to make them stop is to stop giving them your hard earned money. And you are the only one that have the power to do so. It's not like you are forced to hand your money over to buy a counterfeit.

Best solution is you must arm yourself with knowledge and passion. If you don't have the time and patience, develop a good relationship with reputable dealers that you can trust and are willing to take back what they sold if the goods are determined to be counterfeit. Or ask around for help and seek their knowledge. Just don't whinge about prices especially if they have done a great service for you. If you don't want to pay extra, learn to be a bargain hunter and know what you are dealing with. Be the expert in what you are seeking. If you aren't willing to do either, you may be in the wrong field. There's always catalog for viewing.

Thankfully you cannot counterfeit relationship or reputation.

 

The above post by gxseries is the best possible explanation one can hope to get.

The links posted here are accounts that list high end counterfeit coins for sale. Many of these coins are correct weight and material, though they do mix in cheaper genuine coins to make the overall presentation more convincing. We are talking about fake silver and gold coins that cost bullion value + a small production overhead cost to manufacture, but sell for a huge profit. But it's not just fake gold/silver, there are plenty of fakes of non-precious metal coins being offered as well.
The biggest problem is that some of their best fakes make it past the TPG's. There was one really good Canadian 50 cent piece a while back (similar to one of the links above) from one such account that ICCS (the experts on Canadian coins) agreed to grade as genuine. Instances like that make me think the war on counterfeits is being lost. Too many people are simply complacent or don't believe it is happening. The reality is that people need to be very proactive on this issue if the hobby is to still be viable 20 years from now.

 

In the example of the Canadian piece, was that a demonetized coin? If not and still technically legal tender, isn't that something that should go before a federal-level agency for policing, even if it be an older issued coin that is traded (at significant premium) between dealers and hobbyists? Does such action take place in this regard? Are such pieces being reported the way current circulating securities should be reported to such agents?

With demonetized collectibles, I suppose its up to the education and vigilance of the legitimate industry businesses and consumers. Not only does it mean educating ourselves against the frauds but not allowing ourselves to fall prey to accepting certification, automatically giving credibility to the third party graders. Honest dealers and collectors also have to hold TPGs accountable and question suspicious pieces.

One of the primary reasons for joining coin forums for me was to learn more about TPG grading and standards, impact to the hobby, etc. from other collectors and not to just accept what they (TPGs) exert in confidence to lull customers into a false sense of security.

I strongly believe that "security is an illusion" and the onus is on us, each individual, to guard against falling victim to such a sense. Education is the best defense and I applaud your thread and attempts, this is what makes these forums worth joining. Being proactive is important and there may not be so much each individual can do but to know fakes and refuse to buy them, but the threat to the hobby and business of numismatics can be changed when people are organized and adept at confronting it.

 

I appreciate your mindset krispy, more people need to have it. Fact is, you can pretty much forget about any "federal level" action. The feds don't have numismatic experts on hand. They have people trained on recognizing counterfeit circulating currency only. Canada is more proactive on fakes of collectible coins, but again, they can't do anything if the people they consult are also being fooled by the fakes.

 

I like krispy's thoughts. This is the direction we should be going however when you read articles like this, it makes you think twice.

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/article/3606/world-coins-counterfeit-china-manchukuo-1934-5-li/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/ar...terfeit-pandas-in-counterfeit-mint-packaging/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/ar...blic-of-china-1912-sun-yat-sen-silver-dollar/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/article/3844/world-coins-china-1905-kirin-dollar/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/ar...12-li-yuan-hung-landm-45-y-321-silver-dollar/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/ar...rfeit-british-india-1888-calcutta-gold-mohur/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/article/3996/world-coins-counterfeit-cuba-1915-silver-peso/

https://registry.ngccoin.hk/news/article/3350/world-coin-counterfeits-south-africa-1895-gold-½-pond/

 

Thank you for these links! I'll be taking a look at them, even though the specific examples may not be something I collect. I think it's important to understand what we collectors and dealers face out there and can always learn from other material.

 

I don't follow the discussion here. You have ebay links with different coins. You said some real ones are mixed in there. So which are the fakes? I would never buy raw coins over 4o or 50 bucks. You said some fakes are even slabbed, but how do you know? I would trust the TPG experts (or at least experienced coin graders and authenticators if you will) over you, no offense. I read this book on forgeries and the guy said some fakes make it past dealers and TPGs. If this is the case, there's nothing we can do other than look at the amount being released, where from, etc. I think the scariness of all this makes me feel better about collecting common dates and being more concerned with quantity vs quality

 

The genuine ones that are mixed in (though not always present) are the common, circulated coins that are well under the $40-$50 price range you mention. As for the ones that are slabbed... they are just better versions, with more convincing surface appearance and/or patina. I've noticed accounts that are used to sell genuine coins that they purchased to copy and then sell them back, but those coins show up once, not over and over again like the fakes do.

 

One more account with the usual fare.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/worldcoinsb...0b1cb1a&pt=US_World_Coins&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

 

I know sellers on eBay can block buyers but can buyers set up a list of sellers to filter out of search results that works similarly?

Presumably, it's pretty hard to keep up with nefarious sellers changing user name and setting up new accounts, but I guess it could help.