Michigan State Numismatic Society Show Recap

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Fish, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. Fish

    Fish Half Cent Nut

    This is going to be somewhat, perhaps even brutally, half-cent-centric, so if that's a turnoff, you might want to skip a bit. I had an absolutely wonderful time at the show both Saturday and Sunday. My wife and I got there around noon on Saturday after a quick bite at the nearby A&W. Had I checked beforehand exactly where it was, we would have been there at about 4 P.M. on Friday because it turns out the hotel it was at is next to the two buildings my company is moving into in the new year and both my wife and I were there working (well, she was volunteering) all day Friday. At any rate, we got there and I promptly signed up for membership in the MSNS, since I'd been meaning to do so regardless. Manning the sign-up table is a gentleman I met recently at a local club meeting, so we chatted for a bit, and I gave him my uncle's name. My uncle was a member until he passed earlier this year, and he's still getting their mail. I figured they might want to save the bit of postage and stop sending him the mailings. After that, we chatted about another local meeting that this gentleman (whose name I have totally lost, and if he reads this, my sincerest apologies! I'm terrible with names!) will be starting next year. I will, of course, have to attend that as well. Alas!

    After that, we headed into the bourse proper. I can honestly say, and this is easier because I've never been to a major national show, this was the largest number of dealers I've ever seen in one building. I was a bit taken aback, and my wife was downright overwhelmed. We decided to start out circling the periphery, and then to zigzag up and down the internal rows. There were quite a few booths that had a few half cents, which slowed me down a great deal, but I can honestly say that there weren't many that grabbed my attention. If my budget had been considerably higher, I could have picked up some fairly high-grade examples of some common varieties on that first external loop. It wasn't, so I didn't buy anything for the first, oh, about two to three hours. I did run into someone that made sure to let me know that if I was looking for early copper, to stop by tables 88 and 89, because there was a gentleman there that had what I wanted. This, I knew, was a bad omen.

    About two thirds of the way through my first external pass, I saw the ANACS table. Dammit! I didn't know they would be there, or I would have brought in my 1808 Cohen 1. Oh well, there's always next time, or at least that's what I was thinking at the time. A few tables down I ran into a gentleman that had some absolutely beautiful copper. There was an 1855 or 1856 (the date, along with the name of the rather friendly gentleman that had the booth, escape me) in an NGC 65-BR holder that had the most gorgeous peach coloring. He quoted me a price that, while I could afford it, would have severely cramped my style. I passed, but seriously considered going back over the next day and a half. Wish I could remember his name. It's probably in the stack of business cards that I have next to me here, but I'm in the bad habit of not making notes on the business cards. I need to start doing that.

    A bit further down I ran into a table that had a rather pretty 1833 in a flip labeled AU58. Upon looking at it, I saw the characteristic clashed H in front of the throat of Liberty. I couldn't see any of the other clashmarks that die state should have, but it was pretty enough and the price was right, so I bought it. The rest of the external loop was uneventful, until right at the end I ran into a friendly pair of gentlemen that have been known to have half cents. I asked them, and they said that they didn't have anything new to show me, at least not right then. That's when they spilled the beans that they had just bought a Dansco album full of them, which I managed to wheedle them into letting me look through. Someone spent some time on that album, let me tell you, but they weren't particularly picky, especially on the early dates. Then again, who can afford to be? It was missing the 1796, which is to be expected, and I can't recall if it had the 1802, but it had all the other major varieties. Nothing in there screaming my name, not even the harshly-cleaned 1793 that would have made a great filler, but still a pleasure to look through.

    Scans of the coin I just referenced as purchased.
    http://www.fish-mail.com/images/coins/1833b1ds5o.jpg
    http://www.fish-mail.com/images/coins/1833b1ds5r.jpg

    At this point my wife persuaded me to head out for a short break. We got some water and had a nice chat. Turns out she was doing rather well indeed on her Jefferson nickel set. By then she had probably picked up over 20 coins, most of which came out of various 50% bins. She's quite the bargain shopper, my wife, and was having a great time. We headed back in and started going up the inner labyrinth. Some beautiful displays were up, really well-thought-out setups, and browsing was a pleasure. Around the next corner we ran into the tables of a local-ish dealer that had quite a few early coppers showing, so I sat down for a look. Lo and behold, another 1833 in an AU58 flip, this one looking very similar to the one I'd already purchased! The H in front of the throat was there, and so was the wreath behind the head that didn't show on my coin! Damnation! Oh, and the price tag's about $25 higher than the one that was on my coin when I started looking. The nice lady's husband, who ran the booth, was away so I couldn't get an actual price, which was okay. I was, at this point, a bit crestfallen about having purchased a coin that was not what I thought.

    The rest of that leg and up the other was uneventful. As I was nearing the end of coming back up, I realized that we were near booths 88/89, where I'd been told to stop by. We hurried on over and did so, and my fears were confirmed. It was beautiful. It was pristine. It was all attributed, and the price tags matched. The table was run by none other than Tom Reynolds, the gentleman that runs www.earlyamericancoppers.com. I know I've said it a few times already, but dammit. If I'm not careful, I could sit and talk to him for hours, I just know it. While I'm sitting there, I manage to butt in enough to mention that I'm collecting half cents by variety and die state, and that I've noticed he has an example of a die state that I thought I'd managed to pick up and if he didn't mind, I'd love to take a look at his. Of course, he agrees, and out it comes. His is an 1809 over inverted 9, die state one, and a very solid AU50 at that. I can readily see the characteristic die file marks over the head. However, I can also see a crack in the stars and one over the head that I couldn't remember being mentioned in Breen's half cent book until later states, so I asked Tom about them. He proceeds to bring out what is at this point a looseleaf copy of the Manley half cent die state book, and quote that those marks are also on die state one. This is news to me, and I'm going to have to review my coin when I get home (and I STILL haven't managed to do that yet, for reasons that will later become apparent). This is also when we get to really chatting, and Tom mentions that the binding on the Manley book is atrocious, and whenever I get a copy I should have mine professionally rebound. I told him that I had it on good authority that I was getting a copy for Fishmas.

    We get to talking some more, and I mentioned that I had recently cherrypicked the 1808 Cohen 1 that I mentioned above as wanting to send to ANACS. He seemed skeptical at first (at least according to my wife later he did, I was a bit engrossed in the conversation to notice) but after we started talking about the characteristic cracks on the reverse upper left, I'm fairly sure I had him convinced. I mention that I am at this point thinking of bringing it back Sunday to drop off with ANACS, and Tom told me that he was unfortunately leaving at the end of the day. A real shame, as I'd love to have shown it to him and gotten his opinion. I promised to email him photos after an abortive attempt to download them onto my phone from the bourse, and we parted ways. I'm going to have to mail him those photos tomorrow.

    I hopped back to the earlier table with the other 1833, and the lady called her husband over so that I could get the real price from him. A bit higher than I was hoping he'd come out, but still only about $30 more than I paid for the other, and at this point I'm convinced it is the late die state I'm looking for. Having snagged it, I swing back by Tom's table and stop to show it off. He says that while it does appear to be the late die state indeed unlike my other coin, he thinks someone has screwed with the surfaces since the clashmarks should show much more strongly below and in front of the head. Dammit again! I saw then, and still see now, no evidence of any tampering.

    Scans of the second 1833 I purchased.
    http://www.fish-mail.com/images/coins/1833b1ds7o.jpg
    http://www.fish-mail.com/images/coins/1833b1ds7r.jpg

    At this point, we more or less give up and head over to the other room, with the remainder of this room yielding very little copper worth mentioning. However, by this point my wife's nickel count is nearing thirty, and she's exhausted. We make a quick sweep of the other room, where I learn that there is a gentleman with a bevy of books, and not the stuff you normally see either. Dammit! I love books. We speak very briefly, and I make a mental note. By this point, I've more or less decided I'm coming back on Sunday. On our way out, I stop to ask about the anniversary edition Redbooks, only to learn that they're out. No worries though, because they'll have more on Sunday. That settles it, we're coming back.

    Cut to Sunday afternoon, and in we come. Stop by the MSNS table and pick up two copies of the Redbook, $20 each. Ouch, but I know there was someone on Cointalk that wanted a copy (whoever that was, please PM me, I've lost your name). In we go to the bourse proper to drop off my 1808 that I had with me. Ouch, that's painful, but I have a nice, shiny receipt and a sample of their new slab, which is nice. We head over to the book booth, where I meet John Burns the proprietor. We talk more about half cents and large cents, and once he finds out that I'm a book guy as well we get to chatting. He's friendly, personable, and exquisitely knowledgeable. Turns out he's also an EACS member (I signed up just a few weeks ago, and haven't even gotten my membership packet yet) so we have some common ground. He recommends some books, which I set aside, and offers to do me a deal on the Manley die state book. Turns out, my wife hasn't ordered my copy yet, so that gets the nod to be added to the pile. It won't be autographed, but it's cheaper, and it's here NOW, dammit. Hey, she got her iPod early, so I get my books early too. Woohoo! There are some gorgeous books at John's booth that I'd love to purchase, but you're starting to talk about leather-bound auction catalogs, and the price tag gets ridiculous quickly. John spins a lovely tale of a man that walks around with 1796 half cents, absolutely gorgeous ones, in his shirt pockets. Oh, to have that sort of problem! I buy the books from him, two auction catalogs and the Manley, we chat a bit more, and I get his card and email address. I'm going to have to send him a few emails, as I'm still not taking notes when he's telling me what books I need.

    We headed back into the main bourse and attempt to head for one last walkthrough. By this point, most of the dealers are in the process of teardown and things are impassable. We decide to give it a miss and head home for the day. It's already been rather full, and it's only half past two. I've got three new books, two new half cents from the day before, and an afternoon ahead of me. During the remainder of the day, I manage to get through most of the bits that immediately interest me in one of my new catalogs (Eliasberg. That should be about all I have to say) and little else. I persuaded my wife to scan my two new purchases, which I'll throw in links to above where I've purchased them. And to top off the evening, I won an 1807 on eBay that has an uncharacteristically large number of visible denticles. This being a one-variety-year, it's a joy to have off my list until time comes to upgrade, and with enough teeth to actually chew a meal to boot! I'll throw up some scans of it once it arrives, as the pics on the 'bay are crap.

    It's getting rather late, I've been typing now for over an hour, and I'm fairly sure I've long since bored most of you to tears. Those that hung in, I sincerely hope you enjoyed what I had to say, and I hope just as fervently to be able to write such narrowly-focused articles in the future.

    Good night,

    Fish
     
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  3. ikes4ever

    ikes4ever Senior Member

    great description of the show. I must say looks like you got some nice half cents there. Thanks again on giving us all the details on the show.
     
  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Fish:
    Wow, it seems that the coin show was really great. Perhaps next year I can convince my wife to visit her sister on the week end of the show, they live near to Dearborn, MI.
    Also, congratualtions on having a collecting wife. My wife does not collect, but 'tolerates' my passions about collecting.
    All in all a very enjoyable recap of the show.
    But, you said: "he thinks someone has screwed with the surfaces since the clashmarks should show much more strongly below and in front of the head. Dammit again! I saw then, and still see now, no evidence of any tampering."
    Why didn't you stop at the ANACS table and ask them? If the coin had been worked you could have returned in to the dealer.
    Thanks again.
     
  5. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    Great report Fish thanks for sharing also like the 2 half cents you got :smile

    De Orc :kewl:
     
  6. Fish

    Fish Half Cent Nut

    Because ANACS was just taking submissions, not offering opinions, which sucks. There were actually enough people miffed about that that I heard it from a few dealers as well.

    Fish
     
  7. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Fish:
    Sorry to hear that, the last two times that the ANA was in NY ANACS was offering opinions, as well as NGC.
    I showed NGC a 1914/3 Buffalo that I had cherried and they agreed with me. The next thing that I knew there was a camera and a microphone in my face and I was being interviewed for cable TV.
    Sorry to say, I didn't have cable at the time,so I don't know how bad I looked, especially since I was in shock, the Buffalo was an unc, and I had recently paid $14 for it.
    ANACS had better get their act together, or a lot of people will turn away from them.
     
  8. Fish

    Fish Half Cent Nut

    Yeah, I was a bit disappointed to hear that ANACS was only taking submissions as well, but it helped not having to mail the coin to them.

    For anyone out there that likes die clashes, look at the obverse of the second coin I linked behind Liberty's head. The wreath is clearly visible. Under and in front the wreath is somewhat visible in the scans, moreso in hand. Also, on the reverse of the same coin you can see the outline of Liberty's head inside the wreath. The same reverse clashes are actually visible on the other coin as well.

    Enjoy!

    Fish
     
  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    ANACS no longer gives verbal opinions, they just take submissions. Policy decision by the new owners (Anderson Press). The person at the Michigan show is not even a grader, just staff. This has become the standard procedure for ANACS at the last few shows they have attended.

    Great description of the show, sounds just like what my impression of it was. I was there both Friday and Saturday and had a great time.

    As soon as you mentioned the half cents I knew that you would be talking about Tom Reynolds, great guy and a must stop for copper people at any show he is at. (The two guys just to Tom's right were also copper specialists, Rod Widok and Don Valencio (sp) and I did well at their table. Rod had a low grade 1796 S-90 R-5+ large cent that I snatched up. One more variety to go and I have all of the 1796 caps.)

    I agree with your characterization of John Burns as well. Swell persons, knows his books AND many areas of coins as well. I always like stopping to chat with him at any show he is at. I've bought a lot of books from him as well and he has a lot more material I want.
     
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