Looking for an old pro for this one....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by CW5000, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. CW5000

    CW5000 Member

    Could someone post pics showing the difference between , say , VF to MS65?
    Not every single level in between but the major differences......
    Only because I'm wondering what people mean by slight wear or bag marks?
    I understand scratches and dents are bad and the difference between good and bad toning.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks
     
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  3. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    What series of coin are you interested in seeing. This would be a fun project for me.
     
  4. CW5000

    CW5000 Member

    Didn't expect an answer so soon,:D
    The oldest series I'm working on are Merc Dimes.
    Do you have those to show?
    Thanks in advance
     
  5. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    Have you seen the ANA grading standards book or perhaps the PCGS grading & counterfeit detection book? These show photographs and provide descriptions of the various grades.

    Very best regards,
    collect89
     
  6. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    Pick up a copy of Photograde. They have photos of coins of various grades in circulated condition. Photograde is no good for Uncirculated coins. For that you'll need something like the ANA Grading Standards.
     
  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I will give you what I have photographically. The grading definitions used are from David W. Lange's THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO MERCURY DIMES. Please keep in mind that grading standards have minor variations depending upon which one you use. The important part is to be able to apply the grading standard accurately to the coins you are grading.

    G-4 (GOOD)

    Obverse: The curls of Liberty's hair, although flat, are outlined clearly against her cap. The date is entirely distinguishable, although the final digit may be weak. The rim is worn to the tops of the letters.
    Reverse: The fasces is flat but separated from the rim, which has worn one-third of the way through the legend.

    [​IMG]

    VG8 (VERY GOOD)

    Obverse: The rim is complete and entirely separated from the legend. Some details are evident in Liberty's wing.
    Reverse: A few lines are visible in the fasces. The rim is entirely separated from the legend.

    [​IMG]

    F-12 (FINE)

    Obverse: Liberty's curls are partly distinguishable against her face. Her wing feathers are evident, although heavily worn. The rim is bold and the date entirely separated from it.
    Reverse: The vertical lines are about half visible though a portion of all of them will show. The horizontal and diagonal bands are only visible at their extremities. The rim is distinct, though shallow.

    [​IMG]

    VF-20 (VERY FINE)

    Obverse
    : Liberty's curls are distinct against her face. The wing is complete, though moderately worn.
    Reverse: The vertical lines are entirely visible but shallow. The horizontal and diagonal bands are complete but flat at their centers. The rim is bold.

    [​IMG]

    XF-40 (EXTREMELY FINE)

    Obverse: All details are distinct though lightly worn. Some mint luster may be evident within protected parts of the design such as the legend and the date.
    Reverse: The vertical lines are sharp. All bands are distinct but may be lightly worn at the centers. The diagonal bands are three dimensional. Some mint luster may be evident within protected parts of the design such as the legend, the olive branch, and the denomination.

    [​IMG]

    For the AU Grades I will use the definition from PCGS THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION. Lange does not really distinguish wear characteristics in these grades and relies on the amount of mint luster remaining to determine grade. PCGS does the same thing, but they also provide some wear indicators. PCGS describes a coin with less than half of the remaining luster as AU53/50, a coin with more than half of the remaining luster as AU55, and an AU58 must have only slight friction on the high points.

    AU GRADES

    AU55/58 Mecury Dimes have slight friction on the cheek, along the top of the hair down the back of the face, the top of the wing, and the hair above where the ear would be. Reverse wear is found on the top, center, and bottom horizontal and diagonal bands. In AU-50/53, wear is now noticed on the neck and the above mentioned areas. The reverse will have blending of the horizontal bands with each other, and the diagonal bands will start to blend with the vertical lines of the fasces. The fields will now exhibit slight friction, though they are more recessed than on many coins.

    The following coin photographed is an example of an AU58 coin that has been artificially toned. Notice the slight wear on Liberty's curls and the fasces on the reverse.

    [​IMG]

    Mint State Grades

    I would suggest for mint state grades that you do not rely on a single photograph. In order to get a feel for the difference between individual mint state grades, you need to view hundreds of coins in each grade. The best way to accomplish this is by examining photos from Heritage's auction archives. Start by looking at MS63's. When you have looked at at least 25 of them, move to the MS64's to see if you can tell the difference. Over time, the subtle differences in grade will become evident, although I find that grading dimes is very difficult due to the size of the coin. Below are a couple photos of mint state Mercury Dimes.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Hope this helped!
     
  8. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    For MS coins, try "How to grade US Coins" by Jim Halperin.

    And, as Lehigh said, cast your eye upon hundreds and hundreds. Practice at coin shows.
     
  9. Greyford

    Greyford Senior Member

    If you are just starting out with grading it is best to use the biggest coin you can. Everyone told me to start with Morgans. Starting with the smallest coin (dime) might be tough. Make whatever coin you start with your favorite and learn everthing there is to know about it.

    Good Luck

    I have ANA grading standards but both the other books mentioned are also very good.
     
  10. CW5000

    CW5000 Member

    Wow
    That' was great

    Can I nominate my own thread....lol

    I really appreciate it

    (could I push it asking for Washington Quarters???)

    Thanks again
     
  11. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I would accommodate you if I knew how to grade Washington Quarters. IMO, they are one of the most difficult series to grade. I know I don't have Washie's in every grade but I could probable steal some photos from Heritage's archives. Give me some time and I will give it a try.

    And you certainly can nominate your own thread. I was thinking about nominating this thread myself. I enjoyed creating my post and it is always good to take a refresher course on grading circulated examples of any series. Mercury Dimes have long been a favorite of mine and were the first series I collected in circulated grades.
     
  12. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    If this and others as good accumulate, I would like to see them put together in a sticky in the grading area. These photos are better than those in any book. Nice going!


    Jim
     
  13. grizz

    grizz numismatist

    looking..........................................

    how about this book?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Not that I don't like the pics Lehigh has posted, but you can get pictures of all series in all grades at Heritage - and all of this is free.
     
  15. AdamL

    AdamL Well-Known Member

    I'm starting a Merc collection myself, so I really need to learn to grade them too. Good thread. I think I'll second that nomination.
     
  16. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    that's a book I would like!!! On the back next to the bar code is an ISBN Number. Can you post it? It would make the book easier to find. Thanks!
     
  17. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    The most difficult chapter may be for inverse relief $5 Indians. I have the most difficulty with the Indians.

    Very best regards,
    collect89
     
  18. rld14

    rld14 Custom User Title

    A bit late to this, but that is a fantastic post!
     
  19. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    You can only nominate the threads of others. Personally, I think that every piece of crap that leaves my keyboard is the end all and the be all, and if I was allowed I would likely nominate my own threads every time I start one. So this is probably a good rule. ;)

    I would like Peter to think about whether or not we can have a post of the week, to partner with a thread of the week. It is usually not the thread starter itself that makes the phenomenal post, but it is the phenomonal answer (see earlier in this thread) that deserves the praise.

    In our current thread of the week system, there is no way to praise the people who give absolute jewels in the form of answers to people's questions. There are certain threads that deserve praise as well, but is there a way that we can also have a post of the week?
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I rather think that is why we have the Thread of the Week. It has nothing to do really with who started it - it has to do with the content of the entire thread.
     
  21. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    then why does the award go to the person who started the thread? It gets listed in their stats, and they are in the TOTW Hall Of Fame, not the posts
     
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