Hello all, I'm new to these forums. I would like to get an opinion on a Jahangir zodiac mohur. Any thoughts on whether this coin is an original or a later replica? Any ideas on the price of this coin? Thanks for looking and your input.
later replica i have no idea of value of your coin but the real zodiac gold and silver are quite rare dave
This coin is encased in an NGC slab and labeled MS and considered an original coin. What are the differences between the original and the later replicas? Is there a way to tell them apart? This coin was sold as original by a reputable international dealer. Thanks for the advice.
welcome to coin talk punekari forgot to say that in my last post you did no say that in your first post if it is in ngc slab and labeled ms and comes from reutable international dealer then why do you do ask is it original or a later replica have you the coin in hand or are those the sellars images can you post images of the slabed coin there are copies of slabed ngc and pcgs coins dave
Thanks. Well it is currently being sold and I was looking for some opinions before I purchased it. These pics are the dealer pics. The ask price is quite high and without getting adequate information did not want to make that investment. The problem is that even though it is in an NGC slab, and comes from a reputable dealer, these coins are quite rare and to find a coin in this condition is unusual for an original coin. Most of the original ones I've seen have quite some wear on them. And this series is notorious for replicas dating back to the original era when they were first minted! Thanks for your time on this one. I"m just trying to get as many opinions as possible.
your welcome You should ask him to email you pics of the slab and the coin then check with ngc to see if the numbers add up with that coin Dave
punekari, I agree the zodiac gold is uncommon and also agree with your other comments. I also saw it listed in the auction and that looks like a nice piece to me. Of course I'm no expert and would have trust that NGC got it right. If your doubting it ... for that price I'd really have to do a lot of homework before I'd place a bid.
I did ask the dealer to provide me the NGC registration information and was able to confirm that NGC has certified that coin. The question is, do you trust NGC to certify that coin as an original? I don't have much experience with NGC slabbed coins. I"m not sure if they are big on world or Indian coins. Do they have experts in the field that grade this coin and once slabbed, is it acknowledged by other experts in the field to be accurate? In other words, do you trust the label? The Jahangir zodiac series has had many replicas over the years and I'm reluctant to simply take an NGC label at face value. That's why I'd like to get an many opinions as possible. I really appreciate all your suggestions in this matter, Dave.
First of all welcome punekari! I am not an expert or a collector of this series and so cannot add any knowledgeable information on the piece you posted, however know for a fact that all the grading services are terrible at authentication of anything other than moderns. That said if the coin is ever proved to be a fake I am sure these services will make you good if you retain the sale invoice. Reputed dealers have a lifelong guarantee on their coins being genuine, so check with the seller if this is the case. I have seen seller honor this guarantee even after 7 years! Looking at the coin it does not look like the replicas I have seen and might just be the real deal!
Thanks to all who posted. After a lot of discussion and re-reviewing it with the dealer, this coin is a later replica. It is not an original contemporary strike as initially attributed. Goes to show that the Jahangir zodiac mohur series is a very challenging series to collect and authenticate!
i am glad you got it sorted and did not invest your money in a orginal contemporary strike As contemporary means a modern term for new or copied and not orginal I did not no what to say to you when you asked for help i just looked at the silver ones that a worth a nice few pounds or euros or dollars and they did not have the same detail as your coin Google it Dave Ps and some of these silver coins were med from the same dyes as the orginal gold coins were med
I do not believe any agency can authenticate coins 18th century and before. It is a tough situation and why pour money in to hands of NCG Or similar coin grading companies. At the most buy from refutable Auction Houses and again they can be wrong. Hard to prove or disapprove some of these ancient items. A gold Zodiac coin came in auction at Singapore over 20years ago and I believe it was authentic but I did not go for it for it had a hole and was used as an ornament in the neck chain . I have fake Copper Zodiac coins,which in reality were not made during Zahangir's time but they are are very nice to look at and study. A good modern forgery. I did acquire few Silver Zodiac coins lately from Stephen Album, but the company stated some of them are modern reproductions of 17th or 18th century. Again good for study and I have to settle for it.
There are apparently only 3 known full sets of the Zodiac mohurs and they will set you back $$$$$$$ for the full set IF they ever come on the market. A single original zodiac mohur in good AU condition today will cost approx. $100,000+ and in MS considerably more. Later replicas, if graded and slabbed by one of the reputable companies, will and should clearly state that they are replicas and will only cost $2-3,000. If it is too good to be true.....it probably is!!! Also depends which country you were offered the coin in. Many of the historically significant items found there way out of the sub-continent during the British rule and better examples are generally available through major UK and US auction houses. The bulk of the coins available in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh are usually heavily circulated and overpriced due to restrictions on bringing antiques into or out of those countries. I have tried to source silver and gold coins in these countries but most of them are merely bullion quality at best. By contrast I was fortunate to acquire an MS66 gold mohur (my highest graded 17th Century mohur) from sources outside of the above countries
