In God We Trust (til when?)

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Suarez, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    I agree.

    It's better than In Dog We Trust. Trust me.
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  3. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    My my, current political situations have us all about ready to burst at the seams dont they? Not hard for me to see who is who based on their opinions regarding In God We Trust. I see some great examples of the misguided current day teachings of separation of church and state.... Our government cannot tell you what to believe, doesn't mean that our government of these United States was not founded on the basis of Christianity. Moses sits atop our supreme court building, not Carl Marx. The Ten Commandments are the basis for our laws, not the communist manifesto.

    Those of us paying attention to current events have hopefully seen our legislative branch start everyday with a prayer, have you not? In fact they have said a prayer, a Christian prayer, to open congressional meetings, by a priest, everyday since Congress was created in this country. Just because high school civics refuses to teach anything that our government can and cannot do doesn't not mean we are all in my generation ignorant to the facts.

    The fact that this thread and its topic is even being dicussed with such adversity should scare a lot of people. Narratives are being pushed. And soon the people will know truth.
    green18 likes this.
  4. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    I dont know what you said before you edited your words, and correct me if I am wrong, but didnt you live or once did, in the US Virgin Islands? Hopefully supplies were able to make it to you shortly after those hurricanes... Irma and Maria. Hopefully, the Virgin Islands didnt suffer as bad as Puerto Rico. I know a lot of people sent prayers for those who suffered during those hurricanes. Hopefully the Caribbean fully recovers soon and God Bless.
  5. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    I like how In God We Trust receives the criticism and publicity. I don't see Novus Ordo Seclorum, Annuit Coeptis, or even E Pluribus Unum receive this kind of angst and/or debate. Oh right they dont teach latin anymore.

    Perhaps change In God We Trust to latin, that way we dont offend anyone ignorant of the language.
    green18, Nathan401 and CoinCorgi like this.
  6. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I just want to make it a bit more coin related ;)
    (You can say.. My 2 Cents worth!)

    Cuds.. Aka atheist cents :hilarious:
    Cud_Cent_1977_Athiest_Cent.jpg 20181104203625_F5BF5CBF-87C1-4BF5-ADFE-07CFFD2F0F7F.jpg
    Peace :angelic:
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  7. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가

    I've always wondered if we can trust in dog...

  8. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer Well-Known Member

    Dogs are my favorite people!
  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Yes, I did. I moved back to the US last month after 14 years in the USVI. The USVI was devastated by Irma and Maria, both Cat 5 as they crossed the islands. It took me 2 years to fix my place up to sell and when I sold the building was still scaffolded. It's going to take 5-10 years for the islands to truly recover. They've recovered enough to be a wonderful place to vacation for a week but living there is challenging.

    I'm very happy to be back in Texas! :)


    My all-time favorite clean joke:

    What do you get when you cross a dyslexic with an agnostic with an insomniac?
    Someone who lies awake all night wondering if there is a dog.

    Cucumbor, mlov43 and Stevearino like this.
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    All ya need to do is read the rules -

    8 – Subjects we don’t discuss here

    Basically it’s common sense. Just about every person on the planet has heard the saying – “never discuss politics and/or religion”. Why ? Because it starts fights, arguments and causes nothing but hate and discontent. If you wish to discuss politics and or religion, then go someplace else. We don’t allow it here.

    Threatening other members of CoinTalk, CoinTalk itself, its owner or moderators is absolutely not allowed. This includes threats of violence, either physically or financially, as well as threats of lawsuits. Threats will be treated on a case by case basis, but may result in the immediate and permanent banning of the threatening member.

    Now I know that some might say that it is impossible to discuss coins sometimes without mentioning politics since it is the politicians that make the decisions regarding coinage – and that is quite true. And since we have phrases like “In God We Trust” on our coins you could say that the discussion of religion is necessary in a way – and that is quite true. Therefore, it will be up to the sole discretion of the Coin Talk Administrators and Moderators as to what constitutes a permissible discussion on these subjects – period.

    As you can see, by the part I made bold, discussion of the subject In God We Trust has been specifically addressed and is allowed. It always has been.
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not quite. Freedom from means not prohibited. When I say the Constitution does not guarantee "freedom from religion", what that means is the practice of or belief in religion, by anyone, and anyone includes the government, is not prohibited.

    The Constitution specifically allows everyone, including the government itself, to practice or express their belief in religion, any religion.

    But at the same time, that doesn't mean that everyone has to believe or participate in religion, everyone is also allowed not do so if that's what they want to do.

    The primary point is this, no one can force anyone else to believe or not to believe. It is up to each individual to choose for themselves. So you can't stop somebody else from practicing religion, and they can't stop you from not practicing it either.

    That is the definition of freedom, and what the Constitution guarantees. And it is specifically why all attempts to remove the word God from anything having to do with the government have failed in a court of law. And why they will continue to fail.
    Troodon, green18, bruthajoe and 2 others like this.
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If only you'd add a U in there Corgi :D
  13. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    lol - no like for you!
  14. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    Rant Mode Switch 2.jpg

    Next thread.

    The guy should have just created a poll for this topic...........problem solved!
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Hey, it's been done before, and not by me :D

    GDJMSP coin pic.jpg
  16. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    What problem?
    TIF likes this.
  17. Sealgair

    Sealgair Member

    The English segment of my family (which is the great majority—another chunk is Nipmuk) came here in 1630 (Massachusetts Bay Colony) and John Winthrop is a direct ancestor. Further, Christianity and its history was a major component of my university teaching for 40 years. So, I have a fairly significant history with the core elements of that particular mythology. Unfortunately, except for elements like the historical facts of the great rabbi, Jesus of Nazareth and his followers and distractors, there is not a scintilla of testable evidence about its “truth”. That is the very, defining essence of all mythologies, which are cultural stories about unknowable matters, so asking about the “truth” of any religious mythology is just the wrong kind of question. Thus, when seen as cultural history (comparable to how the latter ancient Greeks thought that the sun was a god named Apollo), as the nation as a whole has been moving away from its Deistic foundation (now confused incorrectly with Christianity), the motto has become for many a kind of vague rejection of real responsibility. (There are those who say, stupidly, things like “climate change is a hoax because God wouldn’t destroy the world” are egregiously wrong about both science and Christian history.) So: would I like to see the motto go away? Certainly. But to object to it on literal grounds is to confuse reality and escapist phantasy.
  18. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    I actually went out and bought a 2-cent coin simply because it was the first appearance of the motto. Not that I have any particular affinity for it, or even that I collect the series. I think of the history, and, like a book collector likes first editions, I like the first time the motto was used.
  19. Andrew McMenamin

    Andrew McMenamin Nerva You Mind

    Freedom of religion is linked with American identity. Culturally, faith and family, not government and bureaucracy, have been the center of American life. Cultures are not static, but in a constant state of change because of political and economic pressures. The ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Celts, etc. all saw radical changes to their world view and religions. Eventually everything changes - except my wife's limit on what I can spend on coins.
    Stevearino, green18 and sidestick like this.
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yep, you're right. And the part you didn't highlight -- "sole discretion" -- is the part that's worked well here, and (IMHO) across the rest of the site. I was momentarily too focused on my raised hackles to remember that.

    I've seen a number of people complain about mod/admin decisions or policies around these topics. I'll rarely be one of them. This is an area replete with slippery slopes, both real and fallacious; in the end, it comes down to someone making a judgement call. The judgement calls that have been made on CoinTalk have left it a place that I'm happy to stay, even if I sometimes snark about those calls before I catch myself.

    Oh, and since it's probably been a while since I've said it -- thanks, Doug! (And the rest of the team, of course.)
    Stevearino, green18 and sidestick like this.
  21. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    The word "god" makes no reference to any particular religion. You also have just condemned a whole sect based on the "stupid" words of few.
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