I created an AI to objectively grade coins. Give it a try!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Dansco_Dude, Nov 9, 2023.

  1. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Name the tasks, specifically as applied as a valuable resource for grading. Yes, in the area of counterfeiting detail id. Yes, as to SOME "tooling" issues. Yes, as to type. And?

    Sell the value of AI to me and convince me it replaces the knowledgeable experienced well-trained in the Series being evaluated Grader.
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  3. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Grading is based in subjective criteria. I was referring to such tasks as counterfeit detection, attribution and other such chores that are based on purely objective characteristics of a coin.
    Jeepfreak81 likes this.
  4. Jeepfreak81

    Jeepfreak81 Well-Known Member

    Nowhere in this thread have I seen anyone saying AI is meant to replace a well trained grader. Paranoid or something?

    I bet you refuse to use self checkouts at the store too. LOL

    I'm just poking fun, it's all good.

    I think AI is useful for a number of things, however I do not think it's going to be replacing humans. As I stated before, it can't create, only mimic, it has no emotion, and it can't develop an opinion.
  5. Jeepfreak81

    Jeepfreak81 Well-Known Member

    This could be as well, however let's consider for a moment that if this is the case then all people with the exact same level of training and experience should be able to reach the exact same conclusions. In addition, if that's the case, that also means that the AI can be trained to do this as well. If it's all objective.

    I'm not arguing here, merely provoking a thought experiment. If AI has any future in the grading of coins, I suspect TPG's will be right at the forefront, at least using it to detect counterfeits and the like.
    charley likes this.
  6. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Then you agree with me. I stated those agreements.
  7. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Then you agree with me. I stated those agreements.
    I did not at all interpret your thoughts as arguing. I enjoy spirited debate on the subject. Illogical Logic is no contribution to a good discussion.

    No, I am not at all a Luddite. The self service kiosks are no issue with me.

    Your position is that AI can reach the same level of expertise. I don't. No harm no foul.

    The only paranoia I have is that you MAY be a friend of HER.
    green18 likes this.
  8. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    A lazy man's Photograde! I'm in.

    Free and fast AND "good enough for me" (see quote above) will replace paid unnecessary tradesmen everyday.

    Could AI replace HER? Hmmm
    micbraun, charley and -jeffB like this.
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yeah, but if I send a coin to a TPG, I'm looking for an accurate grade, not a relationship.
  10. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Are you talking about an IA administering an exam, or are you talking about whether machines can exceed humans in perception of color, depth, distance, etc? Because surely you must realize that that second ship sailed decades ago.
    micbraun likes this.
  11. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    It's meant to keep you off balance and a never ending obscurity to cloud someone's judgement.
    Never mind the constant profit.
  12. Dansco_Dude

    Dansco_Dude New Member

    One of the scenarios I play out in my mind as I continue developing Numi is the everyday collector who lives far away from a coin shop. Before AI grading, they would take a long drive to the coin shop, only to be disappointed to learn their grading estimate was off and that it wouldn't make sense to send their coin to a third-party grader.

    With AI grading, they could now see if it's worth it to make that drive. And saves the dealer a lot of time and possibly the ire of an annoyed customer.
    Vess1 and Jeepfreak81 like this.
  13. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    You're welcome to use any photos of my coins if you want. I've got a pretty wide variety.
    -jeffB likes this.
  14. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Because surely you must realize that interpretation of what is observed is the core of the superiority of the human eye.

    I also apologize. I was taught at a young age that when a person uses the term "you realize...blahblah", it is a subconscious condescending superiority statement, not an inquiry. I know better, and should not have typed "...surely you must realize..".
    Please forgive me.
  15. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    ..and I almost forgot: don't call me "Surely"....
  16. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Pickin and Grinin and charley like this.
  17. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Now we know HER name!
  18. Jeepfreak81

    Jeepfreak81 Well-Known Member

    Exactly what I like about this. Also I know for a fact most if not all of my coins are not worthy of sending to TPG's, however I would like to have a reasonable guesstimate of the grade for my own personal use.
    Dansco_Dude likes this.
  19. Jeepfreak81

    Jeepfreak81 Well-Known Member

    But here again we've returned to the objective vs subjective argument. Interpretation is indeed unique to the human eye/brain. But that also means that we're not relying solely on expertise, experience, and knowledge, we're also relying on opinion/perception (and there's nothing wrong with that). In fact, that's what makes it more of an "art" or "craft" if you want to call it that.

    For a purely objective, knowledge based grade, AI could and likely will be able to pin point that and recreate it consistently.
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    But I see that superiority as a rapidly dwindling frontier.

    Humans can bring together information from many sources and sensory channels, consciously and unconsciously. A programmer can't code a correct solution without knowing all the inputs and how they interact.

    But for the systems being built today, no programmer has to do that. The systems learn the same way animals or people do -- by repeated training against a wide variety of inputs, guided by scoring of the results. Given that, and given enough capacity, the systems should be able to emulate human decision-making.

    The thing is, these systems are simultaneously given not enough capacity and training (yet) and far more capacity and training than any human. And so we get today's situation, where in some areas the systems far outperform any human, in others they far outperform typical humans (as opposed to subject experts), and in yet others they founder hilariously.

    I don't see them getting less capable with time, and I see "human equivalence" as an arbitrary and fairly low spot on their eventual trajectory. I'm not sure whether to hope I'm right or wrong.
    Deftly noted, and please accept mine. I have no excuse.
    Dansco_Dude likes this.
  21. Dansco_Dude

    Dansco_Dude New Member

    v1.30 Update [11/24/2023]

    I have added PCGS integration so users can easily scan their PCGS slabs and pull up
    • CoinFacts
    • TrueView images [if they exist]
    • Previous auction prices
    The use case I thought of when building out this feature was for users who are at a coin show or coin shop and want to pull up info on a PCGS slab. What makes this more powerful than just using the PCGS CoinFacts app is that Numi can pull up slab info and remember it as context in your conversation thread. So users can follow up the conversation and ask follow-up questions like:
    • "Has this coin been getting more or less valuable over time?"
    • "Do the TrueView images look correct for this slab?" [Essentially a counterfeit/authentication check]
    • "What are some more interesting facts about this coin?"
    Live Video Demo
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