Grading SMS Coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by WashQuartJesse, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. WashQuartJesse

    WashQuartJesse Member Supporter

    I've always graded these as business strikes but it appears they're now being listed, and as such being considered as proofs, by some numis. publications. PCGS designates (grades?) as SP. Do you grade these as proofs, SP, or MS etc...? Is there a different SMS scale or grading standard? It seems that if we are to grade these by the typical proof scale the overwhelming majority wouldn't even grade pf-65...
     
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  3. nss

    nss Gold Plated Member

    They are not proofs and shouldn't be described or graded as such.
     
  4. sunflower

    sunflower New Member

    Google is my friend. This might be redundant to you. It was of interest to me.
    SMS Coin Defined - What is an SMS Coin?

    By Susan Headley, About.com Guide

    Definition: An SMS coin is a coin that was in a U.S. Mint Set issued during the years 1965, 1966, and 1967. The U.S. Mint didn't strike Proof coins during these three years, so they issued Special Mint Sets (SMS sets) instead. SMS sets contain higher than normal quality coins which can be told apart from regular Uncirculated coins of the same year. SMS set coins are often sold individually, but they are not particularly rare, despite the fancy name. Mintages of the SMS coins are as follows:

    1965 SMS coins - 2,360,000
    1966 SMS coins - 2,261,583
    1967 SMS coins - 1,863,344

    Examples: Sellers on eBay are always trying to get more money for SMS coins than they're really worth, just because the name "Special Mint Set" sounds valuable.
     
  5. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    That article needs updating! What about the SMS's (Satins) from 2005 to date? I'd say they're not proofs, but many are darn close to what a matte proof looks like and some low mintages, like 745,464 for 2008.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    They always have been listed as SP by PCGS. It is how they differentiate the coins from normal business strikes because they are different than normal business strikes. And they are not Proofs, so they can't use the PF designation. Instead they use SP which stands for Specimen Strike.

    NGC uses SMS as the designation for these coins.

    No you do not use the Proof grading standards, nor do you use the business strike grading standards. These coins are graded by their own special set of standards because they are different.
     
  7. namvet4

    namvet4 Junior Member

    Thank you everyone! In one thread I got a tremendous amount of information, education and opinion! That's is why this entire MB is a great place to come and learn!
    Thanks! :thumb:
     
  8. WashQuartJesse

    WashQuartJesse Member Supporter

    I agree, that's why I found it odd that oth Coin Values and the 2010 Professional guide list them as such. There's a premium for the same year's non-sms coins which I'm glad to see.

    It is, but others might find it useful. Especially since
    Where can I locate a description of the standards or is this one of those "once you've seen a thousand" examples?

    In any event, it would be nice to see this issue clarified by the publications. While they don't come out and say one way or the other, simply listing them under PF columns is hardly accurate and misleading, and that was pretty much why I posted this.
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You won't find these standards written anyplace and yes it is.

    Listing them with the Proof issues is merely a matter of convenience for the publishers. But I do get your point.
     
  10. sinin1

    sinin1 Junior Member

    the 65-67 SMS that grade high at NGC and PCGS are more prooflike than business like. Some also show CAM and DCAM surfaces which are rarely found on business strikes except for Morgans. Both services have a tendency to call a coin from those years that looks very well struck and nice an SMS - PCGS in the last couple years started the SP designation, before that they always had SMS on slab and in population reports. SMS or matte proofs also were in special set 1998-S Kennedys and 1994-P and 1997-P Jeffersons - these all had satin proof like surfaces
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not satin -matte.
     
  12. Shoewrecky

    Shoewrecky Coin Hoarder

    that is very informative. Thanks for posting that :cool::bow:
     
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